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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Interested in Tau Pipe Phaser / Flanger boards ?
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

funkyfarm wrote:
Hi,

can anyone easily add another cv linear input ?

adding an 2k7 resistor between R56 and R55 ? or at U5A -IN (pin 2) ?

BTW, the SMOOTH function (which only consists of a cap tied to ground ?) is great.


This CV path, while linear in terms of delay time, is 1/x-law in terms of pole frequency and ladder current.
That means, the range must be set precisely in order to get a cool effect: You have that 22Meg resistor for one end of the range (R51), and only 5.4k (2.7k * 2) for the other end.
Simply adding another 2k7 resistor may reduce the range because of mutual loading of the different CV paths.
So in order to combine more CV paths here, you'd have to buffer the input (left side of R56) and do the summing befor that point, and you'd have to make sure that you stay in the "good" range. (Whatever this means ... well, try it, experiment ...)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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funkyfarm



Joined: Jan 21, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coool !

And don't get furious...but this was just a question ! Very Happy
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

funkyfarm wrote:

And don't get furious...


Far from it!

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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eframp



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just finished my Tau Pipe with a Bridechamber front panel. I decided to leave off the output trims. It looks like this:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tau Re-issue boards arrived some days ago - prototype from this run built and tested.

I'll be sending invoices this week - don't send money befoire you get an invoice.

First shipment will go to Bridechamber, who helped to make the new run possible.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Cat-A-Tonic



Joined: Mar 24, 2008
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Location: Yokohama, Japan

PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Tau PCB Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would like a Tau PCB please.
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Tau PCB Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cat-A-Tonic wrote:
I would like a Tau PCB please.


I would like an order mail then, please. Smile

You probably know about my infamous order forms by now. Smile
I really need the orders in that form, because of my clumsy means of
book-keeping.
Dont forget to use the required email subject line (that's the text that is
visible without opening the email. Smile )

Please send an email in this form, if interested:

=============================================================
Subject Line of your email:
"Tau Reissue Order [n] PCBs" (where [n] is the number of boards you
want to order)
=============================================================
Email Text:
"I'm ordering [n] Tau Reissue boards (fill in number of boards again)
for EUR 27.00 each
plus EUR 4.00 shipping flat rate

I know that I'm only buying a printed circuit board, not kit, and have no
guarantee to
build a working Phaser from this. As a buyer, I'm responsible for all
aspects of safety
for the device I'm building with this PCB; no such responsibility may be
assigned to
the seller and designer of the PCB. The descriptions how to build a Phaser,
given by the silkscreening on the PCB, on the internet and elsewhere, are
just to
be considered helpful hints, and do imply any responsibility of the seller /
designer
for damage and danger that may arise from what the buyer is building with
the PCB.
By ordering one or more PCBs, I expressly agree to these terms.

[Your Name]
[Your shipping adress as it will appear on the shipping envelope,
including ZIP code and Country]

My paypal adress is
[fill in yout paypal adress]
==============================================================

Looking forward to hear from you!

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Juergen is there many pcbs left?
I would love one but cant do much for another month or so
Will it be safe to wait another month or should i do something like sell my parents Wink

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melbourne australia
http://cycleofproblems.blogspot.com/
http://www.last.fm/user/prblmchild
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Luka wrote:
Juergen is there many pcbs left?
I would love one but cant do much for another month or so
Will it be safe to wait another month or should i do something like sell my parents Wink


Plenty left.

I didn't want to risk to go thru a 3rd run. Smile

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Everyone who has pre-ordered boards from my re-run of 20-Stage "Tau" Phaser
boards should have received an invoice by now.
I've shipped them today to all who have paid already.
Next batch will not go out before 12. April, because I'm on a business trip
next week.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Stavros



Joined: Oct 30, 2007
Posts: 36
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject: Tau Pipe Phaser re-run PCBs Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jurgen, I just got my Tau Pipe Phaser(re-run) PCBs. Thank you.

A couple of issues I need your help.

1. I have seen in the “Deluxe Version” of the “Tau” connections that on the output there is provision for a 10μF non polarized Electrolytic and a 100k resistor that do not exist on the “Basic Version”.
I have read the relative messages and have understood the issue.

Is this also applicable to the Solina-Triple Chorus output connections?

2. I have problem in finding a Tempco resistor. I have looked at Reichelt/Banzai/Das Musikding, but have not seen any code for Tempco resistors. I may have missed it. I will appreciate some supplier suggestion and/or an order code number for a 1k one.

Many thanks and Best Regards

Stavros
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softfin



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Got my boards today. Thanks again JH!
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Tau Pipe Phaser re-run PCBs Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stavros wrote:

Is this also applicable to the Solina-Triple Chorus output connections?


No - the Triple Chorus outputs are all AC coupled already.
There, with a single supply voltage, AC coupling is an absolute must, und therefore part of the PCB. (And, OTOH, the single supply also allows ordinary, polarized electrolytic caps everywhere.)

Quote:
2. I have problem in finding a Tempco resistor. I have looked at Reichelt/Banzai/Das Musikding, but have not seen any code for Tempco resistors. I may have missed it. I will appreciate some supplier suggestion and/or an order code number for a 1k one.


IMO, you don't really need a tempco resistor for anything except VCOs, or filters that can be used as VCOs. Who cares for a little variation of keyboard tracking on a phaser, of all things ?!
Well, there seems to be some demand, and it's easy to design the circuit in a way that you can use a tempco resistor where otherwise there would be a resistor (divider) anyway - so I did.
I think Farnell has them, but I never bought them cause I got mine from a friend. And last time I checked Synthesis Technology also sold some, though these are bigger / better ones that those I remember seeing at Farnell.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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loopcycle



Joined: Nov 06, 2006
Posts: 101
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

im finally building my tau.
what are the correct values for the 1V/O and osc level (mod depth) pots?
thanks!
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

loopcycle wrote:
im finally building my tau.
what are the correct values for the 1V/O and osc level (mod depth) pots?
thanks!


1V/Oct input doesn't need a pot. You set the 1V/Oct scale with the trimpot on board.
If you *want* a manual fine tuning of the tracking, put a small value pot (like 1k or 500R) in *series* with this input (as a variable resistor; not as a variable voltage divider!), put it into 12 o'clock position, and *then* adjust the on-board trimpot for 1V/Oct. Then you can change the scale with the front panel pot slightly higher or lower. (I normally use tiny bourns pots with 3.18 mm shaft for this.)
See http://www.jhaible.heim.at/tau/jh_tau_signal_and_cv_connections.pdf .

Osc Level pot value should be documented on my Tau page, too:
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/tau/jh_tau_sch_page5_pots.pdf clearly says "10k log". Smile

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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loopcycle



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice! thank you. i had only been looking at your hand drawn diagrams for inputs/outputs. i had not seen this page from the jh tau main page.
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Stavros



Joined: Oct 30, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jurgen,

I have read most of the messages that have been exchanged on the previous issue of the “TAU” phaser PCB, which have been very helpful to me.

I have still few questions/clarifications to ask you and I apologize, if I have not understood correctly something on the previous messages or should you have already given a reply that I missed.

1. I have read in one of your answers that on your module you have a switch for Slew on/off. What legend have you used for this one and where is it connected on the PCB?
2. On your New Panel which you have published, you are selecting with a switch between the 1V/Oct. CV in and the variable CV in, thus you practically have a single input (either/or). Correct? Is this switched or not (the two previous inputs I believe were not the same)
3. Signal input: On the Minimal and Deluxe version diagrams it is shown as a Switched (?) input, (connected to ground when nothing in) on the Basic version diagram it is shown as Normal input (I think). How critical is this connection to ground when no input exists?
The reason this is of special interest to me is that my modular connections are “banana” based and I am not sure how to easily make the connection when a switched input is necessary (this is also relevant to the switched “CV In” connection mentioned above). Please help!
4. Stereo input: On your New Panel you have two signal inputs with a single rotary control. Is this a Stereo (2x10k log) one and then you bridge the two signals into one path; or you bridge them before and you use a normal 10k log pot.? Or you have done something else?
5. “Remote”: Legend on your New Panel stands for CV Out. Correct?
6. Phaser Link: Connecting “Remote (CV out) with CV In of next phaser? Correct?
Could that also be valid connecting L/R Out signal to L/R Input signal of next phaser?
7. CV trim: Legend on your New Panel, is the 1k (lin?) fine tuning pot for the 1V/Oct. CV?
By the way, on “Bill and Will’s notes” on the fine tuning pot it is noted, if I recall it correctly, as 1M pot. Is this a typo error or something else?

Please excuse the ignorant/stupid questions

Many thanks and Best Regards

Stavros
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I have read in one of your answers that on your module you have a switch for Slew on/off. What legend have you used for this one and where is it connected on the PCB?


"SMOOTH"
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/tau/jh_tau_component_overlay_with_comments.pdf


Quote:
On your New Panel which you have published, you are selecting with a switch between the 1V/Oct. CV in and the variable CV in, thus you practically have a single input (either/or). Correct?

Correct

Quote:
Signal input: On the Minimal and Deluxe version diagrams it is shown as a Switched (?) input, (connected to ground when nothing in) on the Basic version diagram it is shown as Normal input (I think). How critical is this connection to ground when no input exists?

Not critical

Quote:
this is also relevant to the switched “CV In” connection mentioned above). Please help!


Well, here you need normalizing. With bananas? A switch, maybe ...

Quote:
Stereo input: On your New Panel you have two signal inputs with a single rotary control. Is this a Stereo (2x10k log) one and then you bridge the two signals into one path; or you bridge them before and you use a normal 10k log pot.? Or you have done something else?


2nd input is just for true stereo bypass. Phaser input is derived from one channel only.

Quote:
“Remote”: Legend on your New Panel stands for CV Out. Correct? Could that also be valid connecting L/R Out signal to L/R Input signal of next phaser?


It's probably meant for running two in parallel, for true stereo. But what you describe may be an interesting thing to try as well!

Quote:
CV trim: Legend on your New Panel, is the 1k (lin?) fine tuning pot for the 1V/Oct. CV? By the way, on “Bill and Will’s notes” on the fine tuning pot it is noted, if I recall it correctly, as 1M pot. Is this a typo error or something else?


1k is right.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Stavros



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello Jurgen.

in one of your answers in a previous message you write:

"The 100k resonance pot has a 20k (final value tbd) resistor in series with its cw end. (i.e., cw end of pot goes to 20k resistor, 20k resistor goes to board connector.)
The switch of the pull pot is connected to short the 20k resistor, when the knob is pulled out. So I get nice high resonance *without* oscillation with the knob pushed in, and screaming oscillation when pulled out.
You can also wire this up with an ordinary pot and switch, of course."

Q. The switch will connect the CW end of the pot to the board connector either directly or through the 20k resistor, correct?

Thanks and Best Regards

Stavros
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stavros wrote:
Hello Jurgen.

in one of your answers in a previous message you write:

"The 100k resonance pot has a 20k (final value tbd) resistor in series with its cw end. (i.e., cw end of pot goes to 20k resistor, 20k resistor goes to board connector.)
The switch of the pull pot is connected to short the 20k resistor, when the knob is pulled out. So I get nice high resonance *without* oscillation with the knob pushed in, and screaming oscillation when pulled out.
You can also wire this up with an ordinary pot and switch, of course."

Q. The switch will connect the CW end of the pot to the board connector either directly or through the 20k resistor, correct?

Thanks and Best Regards

Stavros


Correct.

I see I'll have to scan and upload the documetation of my second Tau prototype some time ...

... but not now; I still have a lot of FS-1a boards to pack and ship and print invoices ...

JH.

Now playing: Tangerine Dream Live, Sydney - February 22nd 1982

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Stavros



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello Jurgen,

Where is the Bounce / Direct Switch, that appears on your New panel, connected on the PCB?

Best Regards

Stavros
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stavros wrote:
Hello Jurgen,

Where is the Bounce / Direct Switch, that appears on your New panel, connected on the PCB?

Best Regards

Stavros


That's part of a (rather large) extra circuit I've built on a veroboard. Not part of the TAU PCB, I'm afraid.

That's what I meant above: the stuff I'll publish at some time.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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funkyfarm



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stavros wrote:
Hello Jurgen,

Where is the Bounce / Direct Switch, that appears on your New panel, connected on the PCB?

Best Regards

Stavros


Stavros,

that's not fair play !

I mean I was planning to wait for a week or two more before putting Jurgen in this awkward situation Very Happy

Panel is still made of cardboard !
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PrimateSynthesis



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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 9:02 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a number of questions. Hopefully, others will chime in as I'm sure that JH has much better things to do :)

Firstly, in order to determine what size transformer is needed and how much additional circuitry can be powered, approximately how much current does the phaser draw??

"Can use either a 18V single secondary winding, or two 18V secondary windings, or a 36V CT. In the first case, the board does half wave rectification; in the other cases, full wave rectification. If using a CT transformer, the center tap goes to pins 2 or 4 of the 5-pin connector. "

I don't understand, how can an 18V CT and 36V CT could both work well?? Also, putting more than 36V across two 35V caps seems like a bad idea.


Secondly, I'm rather confused about the stereo matrix. I would like to add wet/dry controls to each channel, in order to use it in line. At first, I thought I would use two stereo pots to mix the input with each output. Upon further review, it seems that the input and outputs are already being at U4. Is there a more elegant way to add wet/dry controls without adding additional summing amps??


Thirdly, in trying to add more modulation sources, such as an envelope follower, what is the voltage range of the internal modulation sources?? In other words, what is the level of the internal LFO, and the expected values of CV IN and CV OUT?? I'm guessing the dividers around U5B are to provide a special curve??


Finally, what is the intended goal or set-up procedure for the gain trimmer R18 and resonance trimmer R5?? Is there a problem with increasing the R5 and decreasing R4 by the approximately same amount (eg. making R5 100K and R4 160K)?? Is there any advantage in putting R4 on the panel?? There seem to be two pots that both control resonance.


Thanks :)
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PrimateSynthesis wrote:
I have a number of questions. Hopefully, others will chime in as I'm sure that JH has much better things to do Smile


Better things? Soldering the 2nd board of string filter, and layouting the Interplating Scanner & Hammond Vibrato board. Smile Smile Smile

Quote:
Firstly, in order to determine what size transformer is needed and how much additional circuitry can be powered, approximately how much current does the phaser draw??


You'll notice that I permanently evade these questions. Why? because it depends on so many things. If I'd sell you a complete kit (which, thank God, I don't - I never want to go into that business!), I'd know what components I'm using and all.
But all the power supply stuff depends on so many factors. My suggestion is to oversize the PSU: I'm using a 7VA wallwart and never had problems. These are cheap as cheap can be, so I don't even want to find out if imy circuit still runs at 3VA, if it does so comfortably or just barely, if it still does under heavy load, and so on.

As for powering othe rmodules from the onboard PSU: It's certainly possible in some cases, but you're completely on your own with this.
Just some hints, and one example: The rectifiers and the regulators are oversized. They work up to 1A. But certainly not without heat sink. And you'd need bigger reservoir caps. The 470uF are quite oversized already, but this also depends on the AC voltage that comes from your wallwart or mains transformer. Lower AC voltage => less heat, but bigger capacitor needed, and more sensitive to brownout.

Example: I did power a second Tau board, plus the auxiliary circuit needed for a Dimension-D-like configuration, from a first Tau board, and it's fine for testing. But I'd never leave the room without switching it off, because the voltage regulators get damn hot. For a permanent solution, the PSU will have to be specially designed, with heatsink and all. I doubt there's much advantage in feeding more boards from the PSU of a single board.

Quote:
"Can use either a 18V single secondary winding, or two 18V secondary windings, or a 36V CT. In the first case, the board does half wave rectification; in the other cases, full wave rectification. If using a CT transformer, the center tap goes to pins 2 or 4 of the 5-pin connector. "

I don't understand, how can an 18V CT and 36V CT could both work well?? Also, putting more than 36V across two 35V caps seems like a bad idea.


Oh, two separate 18V windings are the same as a 36V CT winding.
(18V CT is not enough!)


Quote:
Secondly, I'm rather confused about the stereo matrix. I would like to add wet/dry controls to each channel, in order to use it in line. At first, I thought I would use two stereo pots to mix the input with each output. Upon further review, it seems that the input and outputs are already being at U4. Is there a more elegant way to add wet/dry controls without adding additional summing amps??


Thirdly, in trying to add more modulation sources, such as an envelope follower, what is the voltage range of the internal modulation sources?? In other words, what is the level of the internal LFO, and the expected values of CV IN and CV OUT?? I'm guessing the dividers around U5B are to provide a special curve??


Finally, what is the intended goal or set-up procedure for the gain trimmer R18 and resonance trimmer R5?? Is there a problem with increasing the R5 and decreasing R4 by the approximately same amount (eg. making R5 100K and R4 160K)?? Is there any advantage in putting R4 on the panel?? There seem to be two pots that both control resonance.


Thanks Smile


I think much of this has been coverd here, in this very thread, already.

JH.

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