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Synbal
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THeff



Joined: Sep 01, 2006
Posts: 218
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:58 pm    Post subject: Synbal Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

All,

This same basic circuit is in the Synbal a project from E&MM Feb. 1983:

There is a Synbal (and Syntom) PCB floating around the web. I have built up one PCB for this and have another waiting to populate. With the filter on board it works very well. I will say that the overall pitch of the oscillators is rather unstable if there are any power supply glitches.

I can post the PCB if anybody wants it.

Regards,

Tim

[Note Blue Hell: this was split off from http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-20622.html where it started as a striking similarity, now turning into a project ]


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Nosferatu



Joined: Jul 27, 2007
Posts: 234
Location: Planet Rock.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:26 am    Post subject: Re: Synbal noise / cymbal circuit Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Synbal, syntom, syndrum.

Edit: Many thanks to bluhell for maintaining thread consistency.

Last edited by Nosferatu on Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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fluxmonkey



Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 696
Location: cleve

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

THeff,

thanks for posting this... as i posted before, there's plenty of precidence for mixing multiple oscs together via gates, nice to see another example in the context of this discussion. including a filter has obvious advantages, a'la MFOS's WeirdSoundGenerator... would be great to get the PCB layout if you don't mind.

and gratitutde extends to anyone who goes out of their way to post information to add to the collective knowbase... your generosity deserves only praise, not public scolding...

b
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THeff



Joined: Sep 01, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Synbal...more info Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi bbob,

Thanks for noticing the similarity!

Hmmm...let me see 6 cmos oscillators using 40106 inverters, mixed with 4070 xor gates, and a pitch adjustment by setting the oscillator B+ voltage. Seems rather similar to the schematic at the top of this thread!

The Synbal is only a percussion device if you use it that way. Change the feedback resistors in the cmos oscillators with potentiometers and you will get amazing "machine sounds". You also get a white noise generator, nice voltage controlled filter, trigger circuit, and stereo panning.

I only mentioned it on this thread to let people know that the pcb from this article is on the web and might make it a lot easier to build.

I was going to remove it until I noticed that it had been viewed 12 times, so I guess there is some interest out there.

Anyway, the pcb is attached and I will add the rest of the article to show the parts placement on the pcb. The article was scanned by a guy that goes by the name "Synth Ollie" so he gets all the credit! Laughing

Enjoy,

Tim


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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Synbal...more info Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

THeff wrote:
Seems rather similar to the schematic at the top of this thread!


Yup, I think so. Still this is developing into a new project that deserves a thread of it's own. So I'll be splitting off some posts to a new topic "Synbal".

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factus10



Joined: Jun 20, 2007
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Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome! I've been thinking about the EM&M drum circuits of late. So... what about the Syntom, etc Wink
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THeff



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Syntom II, also... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi factus10,

The Syntom II article is here:

http://www.experimentalistsanonymous.com/diy/forums.html?subdir=Schematics%2FFull%20Synths%20Drum%20Synths%20and%20Misc%20Synth&sortby=name

The PCB is attached. Once again the credit for the PCB scan goes to Synth Ollie.

Enjoy,

Tim


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synth_ollie



Joined: Sep 11, 2006
Posts: 149
Location: sweden

PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Synbal...more info Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

THeff wrote:
The article was scanned by a guy that goes by the name "Synth Ollie" so he gets all the credit! Laughing


I guess that must be me then! Very Happy
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23isgood



Joined: Nov 18, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This circuit is almost exactly like Ken Stone's, Cynare. I would like to build one of these.
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THeff



Joined: Sep 01, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:02 am    Post subject:  Greetings to Synth Ollie Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Synth Ollie!

We have never spoken before, but thank you for scanning these pages. I have made several of the Synbal and Syntom II pcbs as a result of your efforts and they work great. I perfboarded the MIDI/Trigger section from Trevor Pages's 9090 and it works very well as the controller for Synbal, Syntom II and other misc. percussion circuits floating around. I have also triggered these guys from the Klee 2 sequencer and that was fun. I want to setup a complete percussion section similar to the Russian link that was on YouTube. It looks like the web link for the Russian sight has been removed.

Thanks again!

Regards,

Tim
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
your generosity deserves only praise,


Especially in light of the fact you're the only guy I know who could perf the thing up in the time it took to write the post Laughing

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THeff



Joined: Sep 01, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:08 pm    Post subject:  Perfboards... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Scott, but I must of told you a million times not ro exaggerate! Laughing

Tim
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ickystay



Joined: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 139
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Big thanks to synth_ollie!
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San



Joined: Mar 13, 2012
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Location: Poland, Warsaw

PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anyone with music samples?
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n.d



Joined: Dec 15, 2011
Posts: 22
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not my channel, but here are some useful videos, soundwise..

https://www.youtube.com/user/tecbugdemos?feature=watch
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Ruebezahl



Joined: Mar 09, 2014
Posts: 20
Location: Berlin

PostPosted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi!

I am trying to build the synbal (and later the syntom) right now. Already etched the board, and i am shopping for the parts now. Apparently some of the semi-conductors are not avaivable easily anymore. I wanted to ask the people who already built it or who could guess by experience, to suggest alternatives. Note, that i am not really picky, and take whatever sounds more or less the same. i dont care much, if it sounds exactly like the original one

IC2: "LM13600", an amplifier chip with 16 pins. "Dual transconductance amplifier", its used at two points in the circuit. first for buffering the envelope, wich is coming out of the decay-control. second for filtering of the signal.----when i searched for this ic i got a result for an LM13700, wich would be available. after a quick internet seach it seems to be very closely related, and also pincompatible. seems like i could use this one instead, but i better ask here before.

IC3: "CA3080" Its, like the LM13600 an operational transconductance Amplifier, and the predecessor of said chip. apparently i could use LM13700 if it was just for the function. but it has much more pins and is not pincompatible. so any help here?
Edit: i just found this chip on reichelt, a german onlineshop. but its 10€ with shipping. plus i read about fake chips around, so i dont know, better have an alternative.

IC4: "741". Not sure about this one. If the LM741 is meant by this its no problem. i think i even still have one at home.

IC101: "4558 or TL1458". According to the text its used in the final stereo mixing stage. i dont even find a datasheet for TL1458 and for 4558 i find several different chips, but just one of them has 8 pins, like needed. Its the RC4558 P, wich you can find here: http://www.segor.de/#Q%3DRC4558P%26M%3D1
do you think this one is suitable? also i am not sure if this final stereo mixing stage is needed if i want just a mono out. there is something in the text about it, but i am not sure if a understood already.

Thanks for your help!

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wackelpeter



Joined: May 05, 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

You can easily replace the LM13600 with a LM13700 and in fact the CA3080 can also be substituted with a LM13700... The CA3080 is an OTA and the LM13700 is just 2 OTa's with 2 buffers...

Maybe you should have a look at the Ms20 VCF thread in this Forum... originally designed by Rene Schmitz with 2x3080's here's a layout using just one LM13700...

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-43085.html
and the original Rene Schmitz design
http://www.schmitzbits.de/ms20.html
comparing the schematics you see how to Substitute a 3080 with a 13700

the 13700 costs 1,20 or so and is less than a third in Price as the 3080... maybe you should use sockets for ic's as from 10 13700's i had on 2 of them one of both OTA's didn't work... so replacement would be much easier. ..

the 741 and 4558 as far as i remember are also obtainable at reichelt...

http://www.reichelt.de/-A-741-DIP/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=446&ARTICLE=23435&artnr=%C2%B5A+741+DIP&SEARCH=741

http://www.reichelt.de/-PC-4558-C/3/index.html?&ACTION=3&LA=446&ARTICLE=23637&artnr=%C2%B5PC+4558+C&SEARCH=4558

for the 4558 there are different types available i guess the MC4558 (icq4558 in their shop) should work...

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Ruebezahl



Joined: Mar 09, 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately i build this circuits based on the pcb-Layout posted her, so i etched a circuit board. this makes it impossible to just use the 13700 for the CA3800 since it has more pins. the only thing i could imagine, would be, to make bridges from the desginated pin-holes to a second board where i have the chip soldered to. if i make the bridges very short and take a very small piece of board, just big enough for the chip, it should be not to complicated and even look neat Smile just have to make sure the solder-points of the second board dont touch the first board anywhere.
I would like to NOT order at reichelt, because they charge 6€ on shipping, and actually all other chips (including the 741 and 4558) i could get at segor in their shop here in berlin, so i would save the shipping.

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donpachi



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

CA3080 is available at http://www.uk-electronic.de/ for E2,20. Shipping costs are very reasonable starting from E2,00. Not meaning to advertise, I am just a happy recurrent customer Very Happy
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