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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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 Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject:
CE-1 clone ? |
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Thinking about future pcb projects ...
Are there any Boss CE-1 Chorus Ensemble clones available?
It's the mother of all chorus pedals, it sounds gorgeous, used ones are traded for a lot of money, so why not make a pcb for this?
Are there any pitfalls?
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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mono-poly
Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 937
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject:
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I am in  |
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germaniac
Joined: Aug 04, 2006
Posts: 200
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject:
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| mono-poly wrote: | | I am in |
DITTO! |
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b-funk
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Posts: 193
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject:
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as the guitarist of my first (and last  ) band had one, and i right now feel a little sentimental about it:
YES, PLEASE!!! |
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elektro80
Site Admin
Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 21959
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject:
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I´ve got the UAD-1 Roland CE-1.. but yes.. a hardware clone would be darn nice.
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Peake
Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:51 pm Post subject:
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| I would definitely get one. IIRC, they distorted easily, but as you already know, what a sound.. There's a local (LA) gent who specializes in rechipping DACs, boards, etc. and he does the CE1 as well, so there is room for cleanup in there somewhere. |
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StephenGiles
Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 507
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:31 pm Post subject:
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| Didn't that use TA7136? |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:16 am Post subject:
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| StephenGiles wrote: | | Didn't that use TA7136? |
Ah, so here's the catch! Thanks for pointing this out.
I've looked up the data sheet - it's not quite an ordinary opamp. Is the 7136 considered important for the CE-1's sound? If so, I could probably make a discreete replacement ... I guess I could figure this out frm the data sheet.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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The Alison Project
Joined: Jul 21, 2006
Posts: 187
Location: Canada
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:55 am Post subject:
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| The Alison Project wrote: | http://www.retro-sonic.com/forums.html?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=31
Retro Sonic makes a clone in pedal format.
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Interesting!
How much are they asking for the pedal? (their phaser has a buy-it-now button, but the chorus hasn't ..)
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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The Alison Project
Joined: Jul 21, 2006
Posts: 187
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 6:55 am Post subject:
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| jhaible wrote: | | The Alison Project wrote: | http://www.retro-sonic.com/forums.html?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=31
Retro Sonic makes a clone in pedal format.
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Interesting!
How much are they asking for the pedal? (their phaser has a buy-it-now button, but the chorus hasn't ..)
JH. |
http://www.axeandyoushallreceive.com
sells it for $269 USD |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:08 am Post subject:
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Ok then ... I was afraid I'd try to sell a board for 25, when you can get a wole stomp box for something like 80 ...
Anyway ... I wonder, if I go for a CE-1 (just thinking out loud!), I should better combine it with a nice preamp?
It's true, the original is clipping easily, and that is not part of the desirable sound.
I've been thinking ... maybe a preamp in Jazz Chorus 120 style, combined with a CE-1 ? With the possibility to bypass whatever part you want, of course.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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elektro80
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:11 am Post subject:
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Brilliant idea!
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The Alison Project
Joined: Jul 21, 2006
Posts: 187
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:23 am Post subject:
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I agree, that would be perfect and individual bypassing is a must..
I built the CE-2 clone with mods from tonepad and loved that thing until I got to use a friends CE-1, been lusting over one for awhile now. |
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StephenGiles
Joined: Apr 17, 2006
Posts: 507
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:18 am Post subject:
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| Of all the cities I have visited in Europe and the Americas, I have only ever found 2 electronics stores - one in Madrid where I bought 2 TA7136s about 15 years ago, and one next to the cathedral in Quito, Ecuador in 2004 where I didn't! |
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Peake
Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1113
Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:55 am Post subject:
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| StephenGiles wrote: | | Of all the cities I have visited in Europe and the Americas, I have only ever found 2 electronics stores - one in Madrid where I bought 2 TA7136s about 15 years ago, and one next to the cathedral in Quito, Ecuador in 2004 where I didn't! |
There is a possibility that some are available if you are willing to shell out the yuan...
http://www.hqew.com/Buy/Inventory/Searchic.asp?keyword=TA7136 |
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b-funk
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
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germaniac
Joined: Aug 04, 2006
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Peake
Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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Location: Loss Angeles
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:13 pm Post subject:
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| Is the 7136 responsible for the unattractive distortion? This should not be a problem. |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 1:55 pm Post subject:
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Thanks for the hint; I just ordered a couple of these.
I do not recommend stocking up on these, for a possible CE-1 project, however. I have bought them to analyse them, to make creating a replacement easier. Or to find out if there's any substatial difference in sound, compared to an ordinary opamp, at all.
We must keep in mind that early versions of the CE-1 didn't have that chip, either.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:02 pm Post subject:
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That's an ordinary opamp topology, with complementary output stage and all.
I'm quite sure that once I've found out what makes the other chip different, I can emulate it somehow.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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b-funk
Joined: Jul 17, 2007
Posts: 193
Location: Berlin
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:05 pm Post subject:
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aber gerne doch
which opamp was used in the earlier models?
best,
tobias. |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject:
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| b-funk wrote: | aber gerne doch
which opamp was used in the earlier models?
best,
tobias. |
TA7504S (or TA75045 ?)
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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zero the hero
Joined: Jul 05, 2007
Posts: 7
Location: Milano, Italy
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 1:53 am Post subject:
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I have the TA7146 datasheet if this could be of any help.
Count on me for buying a PCB, i gave up doing a layout of this because of this chip (I had not enough time for finding an equivalent).
So I switched to the less straight-forward  (but with no tropical components) Boss DC-2... it took a month of work but it was well worth.
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Topopiccione Electronics ..:: Music - Electornics - DIY Stuff ::.. |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:30 am Post subject:
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| zero the hero wrote: | I have the TA7146 datasheet if this could be of any help.
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The 7136? I have the data sheet, thanks. It even gives the open loop gain frequency response, and the internal topology, so I guess with two days work and PSpice I could probably figure out the resistor values, transistor betas etc, to make a good discrete clone.
But I'll try a real 7136 first and see if it really makes a difference.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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