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Uncle Krunkus
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 Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject:
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Sorry Bachus, I was just being sarcastic as I tend to see things the other way around. ie: Show me proof that the creature is not self aware, otherwise I'll assume it is.
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Danno Gee Ray
Joined: Sep 25, 2005
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Location: Telford, PA USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject:
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I think the amazing thing for me in this is capacity of the human race for ...
Hubris.
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Uncle Krunkus
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:07 pm Post subject:
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What's Hubris? 
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elektro80
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject:
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First of all, it´s greek.. 
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Danno Gee Ray
Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 1351
Location: Telford, PA USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject:
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Hubris
As found on rhymezone.com
"noun: overbearing pride or presumption " |
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Danno Gee Ray
Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 1351
Location: Telford, PA USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject:
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It means...I paraphrase...
That we always presume we are the best, the greatest, the wisest...all knowing beings on the planet. We rarely give pause to the thought that we might not know everything we claim to or about everything we meddle with. Who the hell are we to think we are the only beings on this planet who are "self aware" Damn cocky of us I say.
OK off my stump now. |
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blue hell
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject:
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| Uncle Krunkus wrote: | | What's Hubris? |
May I, presuming you do use Mozilla, advise : Dictionary Tooltip
As a charm, even when it doesn't always know about the "slang" you and Scott occasionally throw in  ... and besides english it can do some other languages and even translations, just double click a word. All based on user selectable online dictionaries.
(damit sie nicht mehr denken müssen)
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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blue hell
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject:
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| Danno Gee Ray wrote: | | OK off my stump now. |
But ... you were right ... erm, I mean I see it like you, the talent for hubris thing I mean.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Danno Gee Ray
Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 1351
Location: Telford, PA USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject:
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| Too bad I use IE. That dictionary looks interesting. |
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bachus
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
Posts: 2922
Location: Up in that tree over there.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject:
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| Uncle Krunkus wrote: | | Sorry Bachus, I was just being sarcastic as I tend to see things the other way around. ie: Show me proof that the creature is not self aware, otherwise I'll assume it is. |
I would agree with you but ethologist have a very particular and fairly stringent test/definition for that phrase and it was in that context that I was using because it provides the most support for the hypothesis that the elephant was capable of understanding what she was drawing.
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bachus
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Location: Up in that tree over there.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject:
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| Danno Gee Ray wrote: | I think the amazing thing for me in this is capacity of the human race for ...
Hubris.
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I sincerely hope that my refusal to use the pronoun 'it' for that being will clear me of any charge of hubris. But that is exaclty the right word.
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blue hell
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject:
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| Danno Gee Ray wrote: | | Too bad I use IE. |
There might be a comparable plugin thingie for IE ... I don't really use it but I think I stumbled over some IE plugin sites in the past ... for IE 7 only (or mainly) I think.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Danno Gee Ray
Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 1351
Location: Telford, PA USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject:
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Just so you know, my remark was not intended to a an indictment or accusation against any one member here or any single participant in the conversation. Rather my rancor is reserved for us as a species. We shout at the universe about how wise and highly evolved we are, crossing our arms and smiling with smug assurance. All the while committing cruelties in innumerable ways against our own and other species and excusing it with the mere fact that we can. We are still very much a child race we humans. I would not be surprised if we found that other species on this planet have not "talked" to us simply because they believed we had very little to worthy of their attention.
How do we know whales aren't more intelligent than us. We don't. We presume it, to preserve our fragile self image. If what we do to preserve what we believe about ourselves constitutes being "self aware" then maybe ignorance IS bliss.
We make the same presumptions about other species and invariably treat them as "lesser". Not long ago we humans made the same presumtions about other humans based on skin color, or the part of the planet they originated from, or some other cultural identifier.
Could it be that these other species are walking or swimming the planet figuratively shaking their heads at us waiting for us to "grow up"?
Sorry, climbed up on that stump again I did. |
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bachus
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject:
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Yup, so long and thanks for all the fish
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blue hell
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject:
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| Danno Gee Ray wrote: | | We are still very much a child race we humans. |
I'm glad to see some optimism
I've wondered at times what the world would look like if dolphins would have had hands to construct things.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Danno Gee Ray
Joined: Sep 25, 2005
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Location: Telford, PA USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject:
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Yes an intruiging question...what would they build?
and i too love Dougs books. |
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blue hell
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject:
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| Danno Gee Ray wrote: | | Yes an intruiging question...what would they build? |
I don't even know about the first thing ever built by humans ... it's such a gradual thing, breaking off a few sub branches of a big one, for making a better stick, would count.
| Quote: | | and i too love Dougs books. |
Sorry to be such a barbarian ... I don't really read anything and I don't know who Doug is and thought to have an original idea ... maybe I'm more an engineer (as opposed to being a barbarian .. they do come close though ).
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Danno Gee Ray
Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 1351
Location: Telford, PA USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject:
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| It was a reference to Doulglas Adams. He authored a series of science fiction books one of which, or the first of which was "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" I enjoyed his wit. |
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Drone
Joined: Feb 06, 2008
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Location: The Great White North
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Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject:
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That is unbelievable !
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blue hell
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject:
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| Drone wrote: | | That is unbelievable ! |
The elephant painting? did you ever notice how people function, they don't often surpass that level I think .. ?
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Jan
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seraph
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 1:48 am Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: |
I've wondered at times what the world would look like if dolphins would have had hands to construct things. |
the answer was given by Jonathan Swift in his Gulliver's Travels 
 Part IV: A Voyage to the Country of the Houyhnhnms
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| Quote: | | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:44 am Post subject:
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| Danno Gee Ray wrote: | | Just so you know, my remark was not intended to a an indictment or accusation against any one member here or any single participant in the conversation. Rather my rancor is reserved for us as a species. |
Don't worry Danno, that's exactly how I read it too. 
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DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN. |
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Uncle Krunkus
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:00 am Post subject:
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I'm an IE kind of person.
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Danno Gee Ray
Joined: Sep 25, 2005
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Location: Telford, PA USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:02 am Post subject:
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| Thanks. |
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Drone
Joined: Feb 06, 2008
Posts: 59
Location: The Great White North
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:15 am Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | Drone wrote: | | That is unbelievable ! |
The elephant painting? did you ever notice how people function, they don't often surpass that level I think .. ? |
Yeah, I was referring to the elephant painting.
I think you're right, there is a level of feeling the animal puts into the work that many people are incapable of communicating.
-I do some oil on canvas myself so I can appreciate the work. 
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