Tech Question: miniAudicle VS: Max

Phatbottom · Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 6 Location: Dallas

First, sorry if I am posting this in the wrong place. I couldn't find a Bugs and Problems area on this board.

I am BEGGING for help. On my knees as I type. Please help.

BEGGING.

Here's the deal: Running OS 10.4.11; Live 7.0.1; Max Runtime 4.6.3; miniAudicle 0.1.3.8. Monome 128

I am running this chain: Monome> drivers> MonomeSerial (transmits OSC)> MaxMSPRuntime (running Monome_MIDI_128 which converts OSC to MIDI)> Livw 7.0.1

It was working fine yesterday, until I ran MonoGrid in miniAudicle.

MonoGrid worked well but wasn't set up for the Monome I have...

When I tried to run the Max patch this morning, Live would not see the MIDI signal. MIDI Monitor DID see the MIDI data, so its out there in the ether somewhere, but Live can't see it. In some cases, the Monome will play General Midi notes (piano) that will play from my speakers... incosistently.

My question is this: Could miniAudicle and MonoGrid have locked out the 8000 port or redirected it to general midi in some way?

Where would I go to repair the problem? Is there a log file, prefs file or script that can be run to check for something like this?

I have trashed all prefs of all apps, trashed all app and scripts, and reinstalled everything.

Still busted.

Please please please, can anyone shed some light on my shred?

Thanks

lamarcph · Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject:

Chuck and/or miniaudicle should not create persistent problem like that.

I don't have a monome yet (I bought a 128 at 2h45pm, that friday) but I am pretty sure that chuck can't permanently redirect midi or net port.

I am not an expert here, but I am not aware of any config file that chuck or midiaudicle use for persistence.

However, I can shoot in the dark at some direction.

- In the MonoGrid.ck code, it uses midi port 0 and 1 (hard coded): maybe your port order changed and it create what you are experiencing (the general midi piano sound).

I hope it helps a bit.

Kassen

Kassen · Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject:

Phatbottom · Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 6 Location: Dallas

Wow guys, thanks. I appreciate the help. I try to sound as pathetic as I can in hopes that some wise people will take pity on me.

I am so green at this that I don't know how to run Chuck command-line stuff. What app do I use (miniAudicle I suppose) and where (in the app) do I enter"ps -A" or "chuck --probe"...

Thanks again. I am looking forward to trying to wrap my head around this stuff once it clears.

Kassen · Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:52 am Post subject:

There's really no need to act pathetic, you're not. This indeed looks like a very odd problem. There is a fair chance that the issue is a silly oops you yourself made but we all make silly oopses from time to time. No problem.

I should have mentioned that the "ps -A" is a terminal command. As you may have heard; OSX is build on a Unix core. This command will list All ProceSs (capitals to indicate where it came from). What could have happened is that the Mini crashed or otherwise misbehaved and kept clogging a port while not being visible. By asking the underlying Unix OS we would be able to see what's running even if the graphical interface lost track of it. For this you'll need to open a terminal window, I believe this is in "accessories" in OSX by default.

Typing this command will give you a big list of processes, some of which will be familiar, others will be things you never heard of that OSX manages for you. You'll note that they all have numbers, called "pid" (for Process ID), if the Mini is still in there that might be it, you can try to "kill" it by typing "kill n" where "n" is the number of the process it says next to the name of the Mini. You can also kill lots of other stuff, I suggest you don't do that and leave it to OSX but you probably can't break anything.

I gather you haven't installed the commandline version of ChucK (commandline is basically a different word for "terminal"). Fortunately the Mini can also "probe" the interfaces itself, in my Linux version this is in the "settings" dialog, the result will appear in the "console" window of the Mini. What "probe" does is ask the OS for what audio and MIDI devices are there that ChucK could use and their number. If Lamarcph is right this will help us make sure the Grid uses the right MIDI ports.

I realise some of this may be confusing at first, that's entirely normal. We'll just take it slowly yet persistently and we'll get out of it.

Phatbottom · Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 6 Location: Dallas

Here's what I got when I ran ps -A in Termainal. No Apps running exept Terminal

1 ?? S<s 0:58.66 /sbin/launchd
21 ?? Ss 0:00.00 /sbin/dynamic_pager -F /private/var/vm/swapfile
25 ?? Ss 0:02.12 kextd
34 ?? Ss 0:00.02 /usr/sbin/KernelEventAgent
35 ?? Ss 0:00.57 /usr/sbin/mDNSResponder -launchdaemon
36 ?? Ss 0:00.35 /usr/sbin/netinfod -s local
37 ?? Ss 0:00.11 /usr/sbin/syslogd
40 ?? Ss 0:04.61 /usr/sbin/configd
41 ?? Ss 0:00.39 /usr/sbin/coreaudiod
42 ?? Ss 0:00.24 /usr/sbin/diskarbitrationd
43 ?? Ss 0:00.01 /usr/sbin/memberd -x
44 ?? Ss 0:00.18 /usr/sbin/securityd
46 ?? Ss 0:00.14 /usr/sbin/notifyd
48 ?? Ss 0:00.64 /usr/sbin/DirectoryService
49 ?? Ss 0:00.43 /usr/sbin/distnoted
53 ?? Ss 0:15.99 /usr/sbin/update
60 ?? Ss 7:52.00 /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Resources/Window
64 ?? S 0:00.12 /usr/sbin/blued
66 ?? Ss 0:00.58 /System/Library/CoreServices/coreservicesd
71 ?? Ss 0:01.11 /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Support/ATSServer
72 ?? Ss 0:10.67 /System/Library/CoreServices/loginwindow.app/Contents/MacOS/loginwindow console
81 ?? Ss 0:00.13 /System/Library/CoreServices/pbs
91 ?? Ss 0:00.00 /usr/libexec/crashreporterd
106 ?? Ss 0:00.02 /usr/libexec/InternetSharing
113 ?? Ss 0:00.02 /Library/StartupItems/M-Audio Firmware Loader/M-Audio Firmware Loader start
123 ?? Ss 0:00.01 /usr/libexec/bootpd -P
125 ?? S 0:00.13 /usr/sbin/named -c /etc/com.apple.named.conf.proxy -f
133 ?? Ss 0:00.00 nfsiod -n 4
143 ?? Ss 0:00.00 rpc.lockd -w
147 ?? Ss 0:00.02 /usr/sbin/automount -f -m /Network -nsl -mnt /private/var/automount
150 ?? S 0:00.06 /usr/sbin/qmasterd
156 ?? Ss 0:04.24 /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Support/mds
158 ?? S 0:00.06 /usr/sbin/qmasterd -child
160 ?? Ss 0:00.08 /Library/StartupItems/iScroll2/iScroll2Daemon
161 ?? S 0:00.94 /System/Library/CoreServices/Dock.app/Contents/MacOS/Dock -psn_0_393217
164 ?? Ss 0:00.02 /usr/sbin/automount -f -m /automount/Servers -fstab -mnt /private/Network/Servers -m /automount/static -sta
166 ?? S 0:27.94 /System/Library/CoreServices/SystemUIServer.app/Contents/MacOS/SystemUIServer -psn_0_524289
169 ?? S 0:16.58 /System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app/Contents/MacOS/Finder -psn_0_655361
176 ?? S 0:00.12 /Applications/iCal.app/Contents/Resources/iCalAlarmScheduler.app/Contents/MacOS/iCalAlarmScheduler -psn_0_7
177 ?? S 0:58.91 /System/Library/PreferencePanes/UniversalAccessPref.prefPane/Contents/Resources/UniversalAccess.app/Content
178 ?? S 0:00.78 /System/Library/CoreServices/System Events.app/Contents/MacOS/System Events -psn_0_1048577
180 ?? S 0:08.67 /Applications/USB Overdrive X.app/Contents/Resources/USBOverdriveHelper.app/Contents/MacOS/USBOverdriveHelp
211 ?? Ss 0:01.27 ntpd -f /var/run/ntp.drift -p /var/run/ntpd.pid
224 ?? S 0:00.04 ntpd -f /var/run/ntp.drift -p /var/run/ntpd.pid
317 ?? S 0:00.11 /System/Library/Services/AppleSpell.service/Contents/MacOS/AppleSpell -psn_0_2752513
345 ?? Ss 0:00.02 /usr/sbin/lookupd
349 ?? R 0:01.15 /Applications/Utilities/Terminal.app/Contents/MacOS/Terminal -psn_0_3538945
355 ?? SNs 0:00.09 /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Support/mdimport
351 p1 Ss 0:00.02 login -pf marcusdavis
352 p1 S 0:00.02 -bash
360 p1 R+ 0:00.00 ps -A

Phatbottom · Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 6 Location: Dallas

I'm in miniAudicle. Can't find where to "probe". Do I type it in the coding window?

Kassen · Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject:

Ok, so there is no copy of the Mini secretly still in the process list. That's good to exclude. See? The terminal isn't so bad :¬)

Next up; you should be able to probe from -I believe- the settings menu of the Mini, it should be a normal button there. I know there are some differences between my Linux and Windows versions so likely the Mac version is a bit different as well. It could be that there is a "probe" button or option somewhere else in the interface?

Any Mac-based Mini users that can help?

Antimon · Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject:

I just looked around in miniAudicle on my Mac. I couldn't find probe in the preferences, but there is a device browser under the window menu. Open this and change source to "MIDI", then you'll see what devices you have and their numbers.

/Stefan

Phatbottom · Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 6 Location: Dallas

Cool. Will do. THanks.

Phatbottom · Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 6 Location: Dallas

I was able to get everything sorted (Max and VST plug ins), but I would really like to explore the Chuck side of things.

The last time I programed anything, it was 8th grade and I was on a TRS80 programming BASIC. How far off is CHUCK?

What resources should I look into?

For the Monogrid app, what settings should I change to run 16 buttons wide by 8 High?

Thanks.

Kassen · Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:47 am Post subject:

That's great to hear!

ChucK is quite far from Basic as far as programming languages go. Most people would say that's a good thing... Still, if you used to program you will probably get to grips with ChucK faster then people who never touch a programming language. ChucK uses some concepts that are a lot more powerful then Basic. Perhaps it's not as friendly for the first hours but after those I think it may become easier to deal with. Basic isn't that well suited for larger programs.

As for how to start; first of all there is of course the manual, the manual has basic introductions on how to use ChucK and a intro to some of the concepts, aside from that it's the place to start if you have a question of a specific topic like arrays or functions or the types of variables you can use.

My personal recommendation for starting out is to look at the series of examples named "otf" followed by a number in the examples dir that comes with your download. Those examples combine to form a techno track. I recommend running those and trying to remix that track while figuring out how they work, then referencing the manual as soon as you have specific questions. I recommend this as it's fun, and practical. It starts out easy as well. It's how I myself started back when there was no manual; I had fun and now I know a thing or two about ChucK.

It's been a while since I looked at monogrid but I seem to remember it represents your buttons and their states as a big array named "grid". This array would need to be sized to become 8 x 16 or 16 x 8 and you might need to fix some issues that change might lead to. The monogrid is unfortunately not a very simple example of ChucK code so it might not be the best place to start. Then again, perhaps you are the type that likes jumping in at the deep end to see what happens; no harm in trying!