Raw FATAR keyboard Group buy?

[Randaleem]

Antman,

Thank you for your concern. I did look into Chinese keyboards already, and made the initial decision to go with FATAR based on their good name in the synth market, and widespread use. I will be ordering a lot of FATAR keyboards irrespective of whether we ALSO end up getting some Chinese Keyboards. I AM still open to the idea of getting Chinese keyboards; but I have a fair amount of healthy skepticism based on my own and others previous experiences.

The problem with Chinese Keyboards; and basically most Chinese products and mfrs. IME is as you say (and I referred to before). They're like a box of chocolates Without a person on the ground IN China, you really never know what you're going to get. I have business associates who have been importing Chinese machinery for many years who STILL get unwanted "factory improvements" in shipments of new stock from China.

Add to this the other fact you have mentioned: The Chinese are VERY good at "almost" cloning items. (Your described keyboard which you at first believed was a FATAR, for example.) So the thing LOOKs like it should, and maybe even works like it should, but may not KEEP working like it should.

If it breaks or wears out; it will be nice to know you can get spares.

The way I see it, a synth keyboard is a "mission critical" item (If you're using a keyboard at all, that is!). In other words, if you're going to get a keyboard in the first place; it should not be something that you're going to be wondering or worrying about. It needs to work. Period. Every time.
Most people (Besides you!? ) will not be buying a dozen keyboards.
A modular may have a dozen filters and perhaps as many VCO's totalling hundreds of dollars. You will probably have one or two keyboards (for each synth, perhaps ) and it will be a core item in your setup.

I don't think this is a place to scrimp, or go after an unknown. Or something which we may not be able to repair 10 years from now.

That's why I mentioned that I'd like to see if we can uncover any Chinese keyboards in synths we ARE familiar with; so that we can at least know that at THAT time; for THAT synth mfr. this particular Chinese Keyboard was/is of good/acceptable quality. But I'm still well aware that nearly every shipment of every Chinese product I've ever been involved with contains changes to the product. (I am NOT saying that all the changes are bad; but sometimes bad changes get "slipped?" in with the good ones.

The Chinese are capable of making wonderful products. And I don't believe it is totally their "fault" that the above related experiences with variable quality do happen. We American's tend to push for price more often than quality, even as we say to ourselves and our friends that we want quality. So it makes sense for the mfrs. of the world (including the Chinese) to hear what we're REALLY saying when we vote with our dollars for the cheaper item.

I am thankful every day to live in a time when the output of ALL the world's economy's is know-able and available to me for the price of shipping. My last synth go-round only Pratt-reed were available to me.

Finally, there is a point of diminishing returns where low-price seeking occurs. Which I think is best expressed in in this classic quote:

"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little.
When you pay too much you lose a little money, That is all.
When you pay too little you sometimes lose everything,
because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do.

The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot.
It cannot be done.
If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run.
And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better

John Ruskin (1819-1900)

And since FATAR is italian , here's another:

Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten.
Gucci

Randal

[Frank Luchs]

Hi Randal, this group buy looks like a good idea.

I would also take some 25key economy keyboards.
Another shipping point in europe would make sense.

Frank

[Dave Kendall]

[Nosferatu]

>"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little.
>When you pay too much you lose a little money, That is all.
>When you pay too little you sometimes lose everything,
>because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing you
>bought it to do.

Sometimes when you pay to much you later find out that you
pay'd way to much! Hohum!

>And since FATAR is italian , here's another:
>Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten.
>Gucci

Hehe, thats deep philosophical thoughts! Italian Shoes!
But price not always reflect quality!

Anyhow, i do agree to that its a bit safer to go with a known volume
maker of musical KB's, if they screw things up we could always
wack them in the head with a bat!

[Narbotic]

Well at that price, they have my vote of confidence.
I'm good for 2 x 25key econos

(I haven't been part of a group buy before - not sure if there are any prereqs I'm lacking, besides $$ of course.)

[wooster]

[elektro80]

------------
This I originally posted in the Thomas Henry Keyboard thread.


Just for the record, I want to make it perfectly clear that the Fatar group buy suggested by me on page one of this thread is not the same as the Randaleem Fatar group buy. This means that the Randaleem Fatar group buy is not an official electro-music.com community project. I don´t know who Randaleem is, I don´t know where he lives and I wouldn´t know anyone who knows him privately. Randaleem is representing a startup synth manufacturing business I know nothing about. If he wants to sell Fatar mechanisms really cheap, then that´s perfectly OK. This also means that all things Randaleem Fatar group buy should be associated with with his yahoo.com email addie and not the with any of the admins here and certainly not me. Even though I did make a Fatar group buy suggestion at the start of the thread, the current Randaleem Fatar group buy is not it. Will there be an electro-music.com Fatar initiative? I certainly cannot promise that and I wouldn´t completely write it off. Time will tell.

I am making this clear, not in order to make problems for Randal, but rather because I´m getting a fair number of PMs re this group buy from members who think this is my project off page 1 of this thread.


------------------

It kinda made sense to repost it here.

[Randaleem]

elektro80,

Thank you for posting this! I had no idea that anyone thought this was an electro-music sponsored offering. Sorry for the PM's you've been fielding. I thought I had made the details clear with my first post in this thread; but apparently that wasn't the case.

I have just added some bold text to the beginning of this thread to hopefully stop the PM's and confusion.

Randal

[Randaleem]

Wooster,

My first thought for the connector (at retail) was Mouser. As they are an AMP rep. But it seems they do not carry these in small qty.

The MicroMatch series is a widely used commercial connector and is available in qty. through the larger wholesale electronics supply houses.
I will be sure to purchase and have enough "extra" connectors onhand to go with the keyboards which end up being ordered for group members.

Thank you for bringing this up!

Randal

[elektro80]

[RF]

Any more thought about doing this group buy? Estimated time frame?
Thanks - this is a great idea.....
Bruce

[revtor]

I think Fatar is on a company summer siesta until the 25th or so..

Randal afaik is definietly buying a bunch of keyboards, so I think this is still rolling along, just "on vacation" for another week or so...

~Steve

[Frank Luchs]

[dsipek]

so what happened with this?....

Im looking to find Raw? keyboards.
I emailed fatar and no reply. Ill bug them again.

Is there any other way to get these other than directly from fatar?
There has to be a way.

[fonik]

i bought a fatar keyboard from doepfer as a replacement part.

[dsipek]

Thank yay thank yah

[State Machine]

You can get the raw FATAR keyboards here in the states and they ship FAST !!!! . Here is the Link

http://www.analoguehaven.com/doepfer/mke/

See, also, my new Integrated Keyboard Controller (IKC) project ....

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-29746.html

Bill

[elmood]

Just wondered if anyone that was working on buying directly from Fatar have any working email addresses for them? Also, does anyone have a password to access their datasheets?

I've filled out their online info request form a number of times and can't get a response. I'm working on a design and need mechanical drawings (for my enclosure design) and pinouts and stuff. And would like to figure out the qty. pricing for the various models.

If anyone has any info they could share, that would be totally great!


Cheers!

[v-un-v]

Hi Elmood. The only info that you're gonna get here about ordering direct from FATAR is none. FATAR specialise in ignoring you, unless your name is Yamaha or Roland (on in this case Analogheaven ).

Sorry to be so blunt. Bill has a contact in the last post (before yours). This is your absolute best bet.

Tom

[elmood]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, it's really frustrating because we're trying to design a product that includes a keyboard and are totally having no luck finding a source of keyboards. Buying through a supplier like Analog Heaven is not cost-effective for production, obviously.

For someone who can usually find even the most weird parts for production orders, I'd have to say that this is one of the most frustrating searches so far.

We found a company in china called Kainuo, which actually have responded to us but still haven't got us the information we've asked for. (person A forwards our request to person B who doesn't reply, yada yada)

Anyway, if people are still interested in OEM keyboards I'll definitely share my experience if I make any more progress. And maybe we can do a buy that includes our production requirements, plus additional units for DIY folks if there is a desire for something like that.