help w. prest Ui display in max

[phiol]

Hi Wout

This is my 1 st post on this forum. I'm more a MaxMsp user switching to hardware for more stability. But keeping Max for the interesting manipulation Wink

I've been waiting for a month or so on a factory backorder nord rack 2X. But in the meanwhile I've been fortunate to have a friend lend me a nord lead 2.

I mostly use the percussive sound to make cool beats. <- They are simply mind blowing. I am a bit nervous that the 2X will sound differently. I 've read somewhere the sound on the old model are more grittier?? who knows.I'll just have to wait and see.

Anyways, the point of my email is to ask you if it's possible to see the knob values of a factory preset by sending them as a dump message.
(I know that on the the nord3 they've circled each knobs w. LEDs so that you could see the preset value of each knobs)<- very practical, should of kept it for the 2X.

Anyways, the workaround idea i've had was to create a UI in MAXMsp that displays each controller preset values. (I did this by simply taking a screenshot of the nord rack and putting UI knobs on top of the ones in the picture!).

Now, I was able to get a sysex message into Max that resembles your screenshot in your post http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-30652.html

Now, is there another way for me to send the knobs values of a factory preset as midi values into MAX? I am a bit clueless as to how to parse the sysex value<- or more precisely what knob they represent if any.
I say this because sometimes for a preset a get a 251 number dump string and sometimes it's just 49 long??

thanks a million in advance for any suggestions

phiol

[Wout Blommers]

Phiol

This is an interesting project.

Just to remind you, there is also a MAX/MSP forum at electro-music.com, see http://electro-music.com/forum/forum-73.html

At http://electro-music.com/forum/post-210056.html#210056 you can download the Manual of the Nordlead2, which contains a large list what's in a SysEx file. Maybe it is of any use. Also the seize of the file is described there.

[phiol]

Thanks a lot for the links Wout.

One good thing came out of it. (SysEx Librarian) for MAC.
Yes, the Virtual nord 2 image in the post is exactly what I am aiming for but unfortunately it's for PC only. Too bad for me.

- The good thig about Sysex Librarian, is that I waz able to dump A P(1-9) preset and load it back. !!!!
So obviously this confirms that my friend's keyboard works fine.
Also, the app. permits to see the (HEX) data that is dumped.

So because of this I was able to compare the data that is sent in max which is DECimal. <- No Hex what so ever. <- Although that data must represent something since it is being sent w. variables (i.e. not just a single value.)

I had already read the manual before posting in this forum, but was/am a bit cluesly to what Sysex was , and plus, not seing (hex) values in max I thought something's not right.
I do see that the data in Sysex Librarian is in group of 8. (I was able to parse my data in a similar manner in max <- but nothing happens.
Also, after reading the owner's manual I cannot figure the logic as well as which knob/parameter each Hex value represent.

I would love to figure it out in max and share my patch w. everyone on this forum if I can get to figuring it out. It really is just a thing of Value representation plus and knowing how the bundle sent is recognized by max. The rest is a piece of cake

[phiol]

Ok I have working @ this for hours and hours it's 2:27 am.

THis is a detective one for me I most say. I have proceeded to doing Sysex dumps into string w. all knob values @ min and then @ maximum. Divided them into 2 strings (or lists in max ) and have compared to eliminate a few possibilities.

If anyone cares here are my logical analysis results:


- I think first 6 values do not represent controller and neither does the last.
(I have confirmed later w. the owner doc. )
(A Patch contains 66 parameters, which means the data block of a Patch Dump is transmitted in 132 (66*2)Bytes.) 2 sets of 4 nybbles

MAYBE THAT'S WHY I GET 139 VALUES IN MY [capture 255 x]<-max object BECAUSE THE 1ST 6 AND LAST 7 IS NOT IN REFERNCE TO controller valuesé

(thoughts)- maybe the only way to pinpoint knob id , is to isolate it @ max and the rest @ 0 . One by one. In Pairs of 2 nybbles. <THE> a half way knob = 12 3 <- should be 4 3.5 or 4 3 ---So 12 is for "C" in Hex....!!!


ANYWAYS, sorry about that,

my real question now is , IS IT POSSIBLE TO CONTACT Lars Borndahl's to know how he mapped the each controller for the nord NordGen.
If there could only be one for MAC. ;-( à

This is getting a little out of control , the only reason I had the idea to do this project was solely to see the controller values of the factory presets.

-- Any I way simpler one will be to create an interface in maxmsp to the nord lead more modular. For example say the lfo2 rate knob could affect filter attack knob. Or.....

alright already post already long enough


thanks a lot for any help from any one

thanks

phil

[Wout Blommers]

Hi Phil,

To contact Lars Borndahl will not be easy. He wrote his tool , I believe, way back in the 1990 and on his site the e-mail address isn't functional anymore. But we will try to find out, because he must be a computer nerd and a synth nerd and he will be a Swedish nerd for sure, so I'll try the other two Swedish nerds

I'm not that much good with computers, but in the Manual [NordLead2book - page 98] is a table named 'Patch Dump Format'. Doesn't the 'visual' Midi follows this order?

Anyway, the figure 139 bytes is, for what I know, completely right

To create a more modular type of synth out of the Nordlead Blue Hell (Jan Punter) created once MidiMod, which contains a lot of possibilities using LFO's and more which are able to use MidiOut. But you wouldn't be surprised to find out it's Windows only, wouldn't you? BTW more stuff like this can be done by using the MidiOut options of the Nord Modular G2...

To see a little bit more of the settings of the knobs you can try [Shift+LFO1WaveForm] and as soon you turn a knob the display will show its value, but you have to move the parameter a little bit. Mostly a very slight turn will make a jump of two values more or less (depends on which direction you turn it), so setting it back two steps you'll find the initial setting. Just keep in mind doing all the parameters and make only a wrong setting of one value each will result in a completely different sound! But you'll will investigate the possibilities of this synthesizer for sure and these are indeed many

Wout

[phiol]

Thanks Wout,

I really appreciate it. For modularity, the completely first thing I did when I tried the nord was to make UI waveshaping max patches to to controller the parameters. (drawing in a 255 point step seq ,if you will, that controls say rate of the arp. )
Anyways, great beats and granular sound out of it. It so great, you trigger and tweak in a way you could never dream w. 2 hands, yet you are still in the pilot position to make the esthetic choices you desire.

As for the nord2X being smoother, what do you mean exactly. For me , after trying one at the store, the first thing I noticed was the response of the AMP Attack was much less sharp ;-( . For me , that 's one of the most important knobs on the synth. I don't care much about lazer sound and sweeps etc. Is that what you meant by smoother, the a smoother response.

Also, in comparison to my friend's nord , everything felt cheaper built. The thing was even much light in weight. My friends nord2 feels like a tank!
You could probably tell me , well why don't buy an older model? The answer is simple, I couldn't afford one if I didn't buy it w. monthly payments.

You also said that it is much smoother that the 1st. The 2 things that made me want to pick up the nord in the 1st place were made in the nord 1.

Autechre; and a vid on youtube called "nord lead 1 arp - super glitched out"
And that was it! After hearing that I started to tweak the hell out of P(0-9) presets. And Have been very, very pleased w. the results. I just love the dryness and imediate response from this keyboard. Something you get less w. newer and more digital sounds. <- they are to crystal clear and thin. Like a super gloss coat on a painting canvas!

I hope I won't be disappointed when tweak the nord2X.

Thanks again for you help

phil

[Wout Blommers]