What is the best portable recording technology?

elektro80 · Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 11:21 am Post subject:

you.--- you....

you got tickets to the Robben Ford thingie?

seraph · Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:51 pm Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:19 pm Post subject:

I read this on the Minidisc site:

Important info about digital uploads and Hi-MD:

First the Bad news:
MiniDisc users have long desired a feature which would allow high speed digital uploads of microphone and analog line input recordings from MD to PC. While the new Hi-MD units will allow high speed digital uploads of these recordings, there is currently no way to export those recordings from Sony's Sonic Stage software to an open format. Simply put, you can upload your recordings, but only for playback on your PC or for the purposes of burning an ATRAC format CD (Sony's proprietary format, not a traditional audio CD).

Now the Good news:
Sony has announced plans to address this limitation by releasing a free application in the fall of 2004 called "Wave Converter". According to Sony, the promised application will allow users to export their recordings to WAV format and free them from any and all copyright restrictions. The bottom line is that with the new Hi-MD units, you can upload your recordings via USB, but it will be at least a few months before you'll be able to use them to burn audio CDs or create MP3s.

elektro80 · Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:28 pm Post subject:

Seems like solid state is closer to offering a good alternative to portable stereo DAT recorders. Marantz has one of those too.

Oskar · Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway

Come to think of it, maybe a nice all-round alternative would be one of those new-fangled digital "portastudios" - Boss, Tascam, Zoom and others make them. There are even a few of them can run on batteries too. They could be handy for lots of stuff. Irate eagles, church organs, rehearsal space shenanigans, incudental sounds, foley and what have you. Mono- or stereo recording where appropriate, multitrack recording when needed, then port it into your computer for further tweaking via USB, and Bob's your uncle. Cool

mosc · Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:40 pm Post subject:

Sony MZ-NHF800
Portable Hi-MD Recorder/Player

Seems like this is the one to get - best price / features. Seems to have all the audio performance, but not rechargable battery. Runs on only one AA battery though. PCM recording seems to be a plus making these a big improvement over the previous MD technology.

It has the ability to turn off the AGC - automatic gain control, even with the microphone. This is a must have feature for me.

See: http://www.minidisco.com/mz-nhf800.html

mosc · Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 2:48 pm Post subject:

Seems like the protable HD units are at least 3X more money and not a portable. But, they have more robust I/O jacks, like XLR connectors. So if your are using serious microphones and portablity and price aren't real big concerns, then these seem to be the way to go.

arcticbeard · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:42 pm Post subject:

personally I dont think you can beat DAT, ok the solid state can transfer straight to PC, & use multi record times but quality suffers & the media cards are expensive, MD can with stand extreme temp's, cheap media, A chap recently took one to the north pole to record stuff, where DAt would have froze, but 90 mins of 48Khz recording time on a Dat you cant beat that, there are also direct to CD recorders but these are not exactly what I call portable, they have to be laid flat to record, a bonus is they can record data too. Portable DAT could be used in the Studio too, as a master recorder. DAT DAT DAT
The DAp1 Tascam DAt has a mic preamp built in also & be turned off or on

elektro80 · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:30 pm Post subject:

DAT tape does not withstand extreme temperature changes. Just ask the bad guys at the BBC.

Tape might be cheap.. but then you will always have to transfer the recording to CD or DVD. DAT can not be trusted for long term data storage.

The DAT drives themselves are not that trustworthy. I know the technology might be impressive, but as far as I know, DAT drive repair is a thing of the past. When something goes seriously wrong you just throw away the old drive and replaces it with a new one. Taking into consideration that the DAT drives aren´t really made anymore, DAT is pretty much a lost case. Theoretiocally there are alternatives to DAT. As tape drives go.. the Ecrix VXA tape drive is a great product, but noone makes audio data packet recorders for this format. This is of course very understandable. Tape is dead technology. It is as simple as that.
DAT is expensive, solid state is not. The high prices of solid state recorders at the moment are not rational, but rather an insanely stupid move by the vendors.
Why do I know? I just tested a handful of solid state devices. The technology itself is good, but the current products are stupid beyond comprehension.

Solid state is jthe right tech and the best tech. Sooner or later a decent vendor will manage to create a solid state recorder with good preamps, great battery capacity, good AD/DA converters, many different sync options, midi control, communication with remote microphones using wireless ethernet, optional internal harddisks, usb2 audio transfer, built in analog compressors/limiters, stereo as well as 5.1 surround etc etc etc. I did a little math and I figured that such a device is possible to bring to market at a price of approx. 450 USD ..based on available and really cheap technology. ( That actually leaves the vendor with a better profit margin than Apple has with the iPod ).

elektro80 · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:36 pm Post subject:

Hmm.. on the other hand, that portable Tascam DAT device is excellent. Outdated technology is not always unusable technology. That specific Tascam product is far better soundwise than for instance that overpriced Fostex solid state recorder. DAT will be around for some years still.

jksuperstar · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:39 pm Post subject:

elektro80 · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:54 pm Post subject:

Portable digital recording... yes...

Eventually the use of tape in digital audio recording will be over when the current hardware out there dies. There will not be made much new gear anymore.

On the other hand, analog recording on magnetic tape might just become fashionable again. It is actually possible to make reel to reel recoders again .. really cheap with excellent specs. And the tape can be made better and far less expensive these days.

elektro80 · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:18 pm Post subject:

The use of tape for data backups and data capture is a completely different matter.

mosc · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:14 pm Post subject:

So, I'm thinking of getting the Sony Hi-MD NHF800

http://www.minidisco.com/mz-nhf800.html

At gigs, just plug in a line level signal and hit the record button. In the field, a pair of in the ear mics. Apparently there is now a program to convert the format directly to .wav files. For $225 it seems like the right choice to me.

jksuperstar · Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:30 pm Post subject:

I've been a long fan of the MD format, but PCM recording and digital upload were never available. I've had two models before (old SHARP and a Sony MZ-N707). They have always made great recordings, especially when I learned to put some -20db pad on the mics for live concerts. The preamps never really expanded any of my mics range (even with hi, lo, and manual settings). But they are clear enough. It's fantastic having such a portable medium to recording anything...anywhere ("The best camera is the one in your pocket"). I'm just recently beginning to collect samples for my MPC1000 now. So, I say "Go for it!". And of course, post your experience with the new uploads. You may end up convincing me that MD has finally come of age.

arcticbeard · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:08 am Post subject:

Md compresses audio doesnt it????, it basically considers what is not very audible & drops it, therefore only recording stuff above a certain level!!!!!!!!!!, try recording a piano & replay it on md.

(I do own a recordable MD, have you heard the noise they make when in rec or playback mode???????) try recording some quiet shit without picking up the md whirring away)

I guess its horses for courses. Md is truly portable, my Tascam DAp1 is pretty portable but measures 245 x 190 x 50 mm alot bigger than the MD
I get a realistic rich recording WITH SUBTLE DEPTH not all in your face & one dimensional.

I think the solid state audio rec, are great for voice they can rec 8 hours + in low res mp3 mode, I did consider one of these but, dont forget you got to trawl thro' all that crap!!!!!, to find the bits you want!!!!.

If anyone is gonna buy solid state rec check out the price of the media cards, last time I checked, max capacity was 1GB & that cost 200 + quid
& in hi - res mode this did not rec as much as DAT

mosc · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:20 am Post subject:

Well, the new Hi-MD now allows you to record in PCM mode, without any compression. I will probably use that mode most of the time. 1 GB discs will give me plenty of capacity.

I have heard some excellent recordings made with the original MD format. I figure the new Hi-MD can't be any worse. At any rate, this is for portable recording, It's not for use as a mastering deck or anything like that.

I already have a portable DAT recorder. With all due respect to ArcticBeard, I'm not a big DAT enthusiast. I have had DAT tapes fail win I loaded them in my machine. They are pretty fragile. There is virtually no way to repair them. My recordings were lost forever. I probably should have thrown away my DAT machine an gotten a new one, but I just gave up on the format instead. Also, DAT is a tape recorder, so to go from one point on the tape to another takes a long time. The MD is much faster.

arcticbeard · Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:53 am Post subject:

there are some good points covered here, I wish I had seen this forum earlier.

fortunately I havent had any probs with DAT so far.

If I was buying now I would definately consider the Hi-MD.

I think people considering buying a portable recorder, should read all these points, & list all the pros & cons, & consider what you want to do with it.

jksuperstar · Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:53 pm Post subject:

Hey Howard, It seems you recorded the Allentown episodes with your new HiMD, how'd it fair (always hard to tell from MP3s)? Easy to use, good quality, easy to extract true PCM recordings on the PC? Any Surprises (features you thought were there but aren't, or new ones you found and didn't expect)?

mosc · Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:48 pm Post subject:

The good:
The sound quality seems to be excellent.

The machine is very controllable. You can turn of AGC and manually set the recording input level both with mic in and line in.

You can record in CD quality: PCM 16 bit 44.1 KHZ

It runs on one AA battery.

It is very easy to use with the computer software they provide to transfer files to and from the computer. The files are easily converted into standard wav format files with free software.

You can play recordings direct from the minidisc through the USB and through your studio sound system. You can audition tracks before you upload them.

The bad:
The controls on the device are very tiny as is the not backlit LCD display. It's very difficult to cycle through the functions and select recording modes. The human interface for the recorder/player is no intuitive. It's even hard to tell if the disc is running and if you are recording.

The stereo mini plugs for the mic and line inputs are a weak link. I imagine after a lot of use they will wear out and break down.

For about $200, it seems pretty fantastic to me. Laughing

I also got a pair of in-the-ear mics from SoundProfessionals. I've made some test recordings - just walking around talking to people. Playback via headphones is startling! It's disorienting how real it sounds. The spacial imaging is breath taking.

jksuperstar · Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 4:55 pm Post subject:

I'm assuming you got the NH800 model...is the lack of backlight on just the main unit, or on the remote also?

I'm 1 step away from taking the plunge, and have not yet decided on whether to get the Sony NH900 or NH800. If the 800 remote is not backlit, that's the deciding factor. If it is, I can save $40US.

mosc · Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:36 pm Post subject:

DrJustice · Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 4:17 pm Post subject:

You've got me wanting one of these now Razz

It'll have to wait though... But - I checked out the manual for the 900 and it has a backlit remote. It also takes an AA battery in a small external pod, in addition to the built in NIMH, giving a very long total battery life.

DJ
--

mosc · Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:18 pm Post subject:

This is an old topic. Check out some of these newer solid-state portable recording devices.

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-8330.html