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puRe
Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 13 Location: Serbia
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:05 pm Post subject:
Step sequencer patch... |
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Potential G2 user here...
A question for all you G2 wizards:
would it be possible to make a 8/16/32 step sequencer with a true skip function (a la moog 960)...
if so, any patch examples? |
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egw
Stream Operator
Joined: Feb 01, 2003 Posts: 1569 Location: Asheville NC
Audio files: 18
G2 patch files: 8
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:07 pm Post subject:
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Explain how you want the skip function to work. |
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puRe
Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 13 Location: Serbia
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:24 pm Post subject:
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egw wrote: | Explain how you want the skip function to work. |
let's saw we have 4 steps...when all steps are normal (ie. none are set to skip), it would go:
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4
if we set steps 2 and 4 to skip the sequence would go:
1 3 1 3 1 3 1 3 1 3 1 3
so there would be no pauses/mutes where the (now skipped) steps were... |
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egw
Stream Operator
Joined: Feb 01, 2003 Posts: 1569 Location: Asheville NC
Audio files: 18
G2 patch files: 8
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:32 pm Post subject:
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OK, I think it's possible, but it may be a bit complicated.
I'll have to give it a shot when I get some time.
Maybe someone else has it figured out already. |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24200 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 280
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:48 pm Post subject:
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This seems to do the trick.
Jan.
Edited : This is fun ... automated the skipping process & funned up the synth a bit. See attachment.
Description: |
skipping sequencer example |
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Filesize: |
39.08 KB |
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45205 Time(s) |
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Description: |
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Download (listen) |
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04-016-006-c.pch2 |
Filesize: |
2.13 KB |
Downloaded: |
2613 Time(s) |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18214 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 218
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:42 pm Post subject:
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You did it, Jan.
I used to play the 960 in my younger days. The skip switches were very cool, but so was the jump push buttons. When you push them, the sequencer would jump to that stage. Lots of fun to play interactively. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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puRe
Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 13 Location: Serbia
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:27 am Post subject:
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Thanks a lot, Jan! |
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egw
Stream Operator
Joined: Feb 01, 2003 Posts: 1569 Location: Asheville NC
Audio files: 18
G2 patch files: 8
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Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:37 pm Post subject:
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I don't understand why the fast osc works.
If both inputs are zero, then XOR should return a zero.
So how does it ever get out of the initial state? |
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Rob
Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 580 Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
G2 patch files: 109
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Roland Kuit
Joined: Sep 29, 2003 Posts: 1090 Location: The Netherlands/Sweden
Audio files: 8
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24200 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 280
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:53 pm Post subject:
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egw wrote: | I don't understand why the fast osc works.
If both inputs are zero, then XOR should return a zero.
So how does it ever get out of the initial state? |
Ypu are right, it can't work.
I started with an inverter and then thought I needed some more logic and so dropped in a logic module. Next thing was that I thought an xor could invert for me and so I could drop the invertor. And of course it can invert but it only does so when it's other input is a one. I ended up not needing additional logic, but left in the xor, and the error.
It did the trick, but now I really don't know why it works :-)
BTW, I like Rob's solution better.
Jan. |
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Rob
Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 580 Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
G2 patch files: 109
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24200 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 280
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:26 pm Post subject:
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Rob wrote: |
Jan, in your patch it is the switch that actually interrupts the clock signal and so works the same as an inverting function. It doesn't even need the other input. |
Ok, that makes sense - not quite what I intended though ...
I had some glitches as well in the original that's why in the patch I inserted a sample & hold - had not noticed it to be late, but that's nothing strange for a free running beat clock of course - it only matters when using a truely synced clock where some beat has to be 'first'.
A glide set to some 2 .. 3 ms seems to eliminate the glitches without touching the steps too much. That is to up to about 20 Hz (1200 BPM), it's kind of hard to decide what is contributed by glitching and what is contributed by the staircased nature of the sequencer output itself - especially when the beat goes audio rate (lets say above 20 Hz or so).
I tried delaying the seqencer clock a bit (with a S&H), but that doesn't help much, it makes things worse even as the glitches get longer.
Making the thing go at audio rates more than doubles the DSP %, no option I agree ...
Interesting problem !
Jan. |
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puRe
Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 13 Location: Serbia
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Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:23 pm Post subject:
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Another question...could anyone post an example of step sequencer with speeding up on certain steps (like on ARP sequencer where you can patch one of the Gate busses to Clock FM and use it to speed the sequence at steps where that gate bus triggered)...
edit:
will post video example... |
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2672 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
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puRe
Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 13 Location: Serbia
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Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:24 pm Post subject:
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Thanks, I reckon that should do it... |
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Rob
Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 580 Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
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puRe
Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 13 Location: Serbia
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Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:14 am Post subject:
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Rob wrote: | Here is an example with both skips and four possible note lengths. |
You read my mind!!!
Thanks! |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18214 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 218
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:38 am Post subject:
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Rob wrote: | And no, Mosc! It cannot run backwards! |
True, it won't run backwards, but if we are looking for something to do what a Moog 960 sequencer did, then that's not a problem because it couldn't run backwards either.
The 960 had another very nice feature for interactive performace, the jump button. These were little push buttons that would force the sequencer to any stage; sorta like 8 individual asychronous reset switches.
I think that to get a really dream sequencer, the G2 would need a binary up/down counter with asynchronous preset module. Then, with the D/A and the Control Sequencer modules, you could build a 960 type device which could go forwards and backwards.
Back to the 960, there was an option for a sequencer switch module, which was basically a multiplexer. This was very powerful. The 960 had I think tree rows of knobs. With the sequencer switch, you could select the rows with voltage control. This would be no problem with the G2 becuase you could run several sequencer modules in parallel and use the G2's switch and mux modules to your hearts delight. So, what we need is only the binary up/down counter with asychronous preset - then there would be global happiness and world peace. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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Fozzie
Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 875 Location: Near Wageningen, the Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:32 am Post subject:
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mosc wrote: | ..... then there would be global happiness and world peace. |
I say Howard must have been a fashion model |
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egw
Stream Operator
Joined: Feb 01, 2003 Posts: 1569 Location: Asheville NC
Audio files: 18
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Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:43 am Post subject:
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Can you explain what you mean by asynchronous preset? |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24200 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 280
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:35 am Post subject:
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A counter has some internal state, it's current count. Presetting a counter sets the state to be equal to the value you apply with the preset value (which for a binary counter is a couple of lines carrying a binary value).
This presetting can be done either clock-synchroneous or clock-asynchroneous. When synced the value will be taken on the next active edge of the clock, async means: set it immediately. For a synced preset it would be nice to store the preset value temporary into a preset register, so it can be taken away fom the input and still be available on the next active clock edge.
I was wondering though whether the clock should be reset as well on an async counter update - probably not I guess to keep the beat unbroken.
For a G2 implementation there is no real need to make the mechanism truely binary as one single signal line can have multiple values. When required a binary value can always be made using an AD converter module.
For a sequencer implementation iit would be nice to have as many presets available as there are sequencer steps. The presets could be jammed in on a button press.
Jan. |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24200 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 280
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24200 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 280
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:08 pm Post subject:
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And a variation, with time control over steps as well, in a weird way a bit - but tweakable.
I think it starts to work a bit like the David Vorhaus magic sequencer machine. One should play it interactively to make it work.
Buttons to press are :
- direction/up-down
- presets-1..16 (the asociated knobs are not meant to be turned)
Changing first- and last-val is interesting.
Pressing the random buttons on the sequecers, fwd- and rev-stp values and click reset every now & then.
For some examples try the variations.
Keyboard owners shoulf try to assign some knobs, I thinks it's fun to do so, should be able to produce instant White Noise with some tweaking:-)
Edit : and the skips on the skip-durat sequencer and the speed and speed modulation of course.
Edit again : replaced the patch by a newer version with more 'normal' timing.
Jan.
Description: |
Sequencer up/down, skips, jumps, reset and step speeds - various Vorhaus possibilities in this. Saved with some variations to try. |
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Download (listen) |
Filename: |
udsereseq-8.pch2 |
Filesize: |
4.67 KB |
Downloaded: |
2583 Time(s) |
Last edited by blue hell on Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Cannonball
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 11 Location: Chelmsford, England
G2 patch files: 3
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Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:08 am Post subject:
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Rob's final version of Jan's original patch works great with a bit ot tweaking. This is much, much simpler and better than my original attempt at at a similar patch which I posted as a performance a few months back. I find it difficult to understand what some of the logic modules are supposed to do - you guys obviously know what you're doing!
Thanks guys.
Dave |
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