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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:53 am Post subject:
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Ahh! Now - beware! Quite a few others here know a heck of a lot more electronics theory than I do - but in this audio case - those 22pF and 47pF caps that you removed, can be fairly important.
See - in such a situation, opamps CAN start to oscillate all by themselves! (Though if I'm not mistaken, it more often occurs when they're amplifying? These ones are operating as buffers, as shown.)
Those tiny caps that are inserted in the Feedback section of the opamp, help to block, that oscillation.
And that oscillation, CAN be a farging pain in the ear!  
I remember reading the suggestion between 10pF and 100pF for them.
They are not ALWAYS required, but if you have self-oscillation imposed upon your waveform, they help to get rid of it. 
Come ON -minus-! Mix some parts together and let's hear what happens!  |
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Draal
Joined: May 18, 2010
Posts: 308
Location: Oak Park, IL
Audio files: 5
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:59 am Post subject:
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| Thanks for the heads up Rykhaard . I'll test a bit more tonight...after my Honey-Do list! |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:03 am Post subject:
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| Draal wrote: | | Thanks for the heads up Rykhaard . I'll test a bit more tonight...after my Honey-Do list! |
Haha! Otay! Aye. My 'honey' just woke up. I'll be having my to-do list soon! HAhahaha.
Keep us posted. |
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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:58 am Post subject:
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Finally got it working! I went off the schematic you posted Draal. I followed it pretty closely. I used the 10K resistors and the caps as marked. I put the 47pF cap in there but used two 12pF parallel as I could find the 27pF ones around my messy house! But hey, it works!!! Really happy I have something working! Thanks heaps for posting! And thanks Rykhaard for the time and effort over on the splendid Deathlehem forum.
Anyone who hasn't checked out Deathlehem should do immediately! We are growing in numbers!!!  |
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Draal
Joined: May 18, 2010
Posts: 308
Location: Oak Park, IL
Audio files: 5
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:11 am Post subject:
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Glad you got yours up and running minus ! I know what you mean regarding a messy house; my wife is wondering what's with the tangled mess of wires sitting atop my dresser! I keep telling her it's for this super cool Lunetta, but after the glazed over looks, I just tell her I'm building a device that will finally send my neighbor's pitbull running the other way  !
I'm happy with my build as well and now I can focus on all this wire spaghetti  ... |
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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:15 am Post subject:
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HA HA! Yes, having an efficient and powerful Lunetta device is essential if you have a new baby on the way and have a pitbull living next door!
I've just switched to the 100K audio pots as I didn't have enough 10K A's in my collection. I still have the 10K resistors on the inputs and the 1uF caps there too. Not sure if this will be an issue or not. I'll soon find out when I add more input channels I guess. Wondering if the resistors should be increased now because the pots have increased.... |
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Draal
Joined: May 18, 2010
Posts: 308
Location: Oak Park, IL
Audio files: 5
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:34 am Post subject:
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Re: effects of using 100k pots
My setup has 4 100k instead of the 10k in the schematic. They are linear taper pots due to my errors in ordering  . They still do the job and I have plenty of volume control for a noob's first opamp mixer . My understanding is as long as the 10k summing resistors and 10k resistors on the op amps stay the same, unity gain will be achieved.
Try the 100k's and leave the rest of the resistors as is and see if you like what you're hearing. I'm 41 and I play electric guitar; so my ears may be a tad off due to my other sonic hobbies! |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007
Posts: 6221
Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:16 pm Post subject:
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Wow this is so cool that you all are working together virtually like this. More power to ya!
Les
_________________
"Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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Ajax
Joined: Apr 05, 2010
Posts: 63
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:55 pm Post subject:
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| Got mine all workin, thanks everyone! |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 4:29 am Post subject:
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| Draal wrote: | | I'm 41 and I play electric guitar; so my ears may be a tad off due to my other sonic hobbies! |
  Whhaaaatttt? You're Ford wont Run and you bought an eclectic car? 
Well - at my age of 47, I still prefer the ones that run on gas! I'm too old now to hear those quiet ones and I can't tell if they're running with my bad hearing!
Is this the right forum? The one where I came to sell my wedding dress and Slicer Dicer that I'd seen on TV at 3 in the morning? Gettin' hard to see at my ol' age. |
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Draal
Joined: May 18, 2010
Posts: 308
Location: Oak Park, IL
Audio files: 5
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:46 am Post subject:
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| I "hear" ya! |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:27 pm Post subject:
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| Draal wrote: | | I "hear" ya! |
HAhahahaha. Couldn't help it. In early 2001 though, developed permanent tinnitis. At least it's not THAT loud. I've gotten used to it over the years. WAY too much mixing with headphones on though. That'd done it.
Glasses as well and all's back to (cough cough) 'normal'. |
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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject:
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Ha ha! Yes, headphones were what gave my eardrums a beating! Those old Walkmans used to be seriously loud!!! My son gave me a listen of his iPod when he first got it and there I was poking my finger up as if to indicate more volume... and he increased the volume.... but then it could go no louder! WTF! He reckons I've damaged my hearing, but I would not be happy with a max volume as low as that! I'd be asking for a refund!
...Had a few op-amp problems again!!!! ... as Rykhaard has already be subjected to over at Deathlehem! I hate these little op-amps! I hope I never have to deal with them again! Got all sorts of interference problems of one pot affecting the other input. I won't bore the crap out of you all here and duplicate my misery elsewhere.... WHEN I have something which comes up to standard, I shall post a schematic and stripboard diagram here so nobody else in the history of E-M has to go through this agony!! Seriously, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.... well actually I might! |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:55 pm Post subject:
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| -minus- wrote: | Ha ha! Yes, headphones were what gave my eardrums a beating! Those old Walkmans used to be seriously loud!!! My son gave me a listen of his iPod when he first got it and there I was poking my finger up as if to indicate more volume... and he increased the volume.... but then it could go no louder! WTF! He reckons I've damaged my hearing, but I would not be happy with a max volume as low as that! I'd be asking for a refund!
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"Oh no sir! You must not do that! We at Apple are keeping the volume capability of the i-Plod lower, so that you may not HURT yourself! This is simply, for your safety! We care about you! Our wonderful customer!"
 That's the same shit that I put up with, through their crappy earbuds that fall out all over the place. ( I know, I know. I could just buy a better pair.  But ... I'm selling this thing as soon as I can, mainly due to it's horrible wifi pickup abilities. )
| Quote: |
...Had a few op-amp problems again!!!! ... as Rykhaard has already be subjected to over at Deathlehem! I hate these little op-amps! I hope I never have to deal with them again! Got all sorts of interference problems of one pot affecting the other input. I won't bore the crap out of you all here and duplicate my misery elsewhere.... WHEN I have something which comes up to standard, I shall post a schematic and stripboard diagram here so nobody else in the history of E-M has to go through this agony!! Seriously, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.... well actually I might! |
AHhhh! Now I've a thought as to a new possible problem possibility. Are you ensuring that the Ground that exists, for everything on the breadboard, or stripboard, is carried on out to the amplifier that you're plugging this all in to? I've experienced that problem a few times before. As soon as I realized that, problem gone.
Ground. It has to be connected, everywhere. Else - the current has nowhere to go. (Current ALWAYS, heads to ground. Always. Just like gravity and anything dropped. Always, heads to Ground.) |
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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:06 pm Post subject:
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HA HA! -Apple!
Well, the thing is, with this banana jack stuff.... the socket has one connection, right? So this is ok.... it goes from one IC to the next or whatever is in your Lunetta setup. To test this mixer, I have three oscillators off a board made around a 40106. That has power + and - going to it. That same power source is powering the mixer + and -. The output jack is connected from the op-amp out to the pin and ALSO to the (-) Ground of that board. As far as I can tell, all is ok.
I have substituted the TL072 for a LM358 and I think it is better. Pin 3, which I neglected last time, is now grounded! It appears to be working, although I think I need to get rid of those 100K resistors and get some of those (cough cough) fantastic BLUE ones with a 10K value instead.
Bit sleep deprived here! Not sure what I'm doing anymore!  Anyway, the show must go on! I'm off to town very shortly to get those resistors... then, if I am still awake, or alive from the walk into town, I might get this confirmed.... and perhaps soldered up on some stripboard!
I shall report back in a bit! |
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RF
Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1502
Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject:
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| -minus- wrote: | | I hate these little op-amps! I hope I never have to deal with them again! |
Betcha change your mind within the year...
Keep pluggin away, minus - you'll understand...
bruce
_________________
www.sdiy.org/rfeng
"I want to make these sounds that go wooo-wooo-ah-woo-woo.”
(Herb Deutsch to Bob Moog ~1963) |
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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:38 pm Post subject:
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| Ah what a laugh! The crap which comes out of my mouth at times! I've got this far without having a need for them... why now? Be easier taking up guitar instead. At least there's less wiring involved and only 2 or 3 pots to ever deal with! Then again, you're expected to put your fingers in retarded positions and press down in between those metal lines on that wooden plank bit without touching the other strings AS WELL AS hitting the other ends of the strings with a little plastic triangle thing AND look cool at the same time... NAH, I think op-amps might be easier after all! |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:07 am Post subject:
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| -minus- wrote: | | Ah what a laugh! The crap which comes out of my mouth at times! I've got this far without having a need for them... why now? Be easier taking up guitar instead. At least there's less wiring involved and only 2 or 3 pots to ever deal with! Then again, you're expected to put your fingers in retarded positions and press down in between those metal lines on that wooden plank bit without touching the other strings AS WELL AS hitting the other ends of the strings with a little plastic triangle thing AND look cool at the same time... NAH, I think op-amps might be easier after all! |
-minus-! Look! See? You're learning! I toiled away for 6 years in lessons on one of them strung things! It were so bad, I were even developing lines on my fingers from pressing down on those 6 things. (Most of the time they were 6, anyways! )
Hell with that! I picked up one of the normally 4 string ones and took a couple of years of lessons with that one. Liked that better. Hahaha. Bigger strings and the sound made your chest rumble. Hahahaha.
But then one day, wandering around in my usual daze, I tripped and fell over these round barrel type things with these bright gold plates or something on sticks around them as well. Trying to get up from the fall, one of my hands came slamming down on this other wooden box with all of these white and black things in a row sticking out and this SOUND that came from, like, outta nowhere man!
I was hooked! (Or so my imaginary dream goes)
Then one day some time later, I had a problem with one of my own wooden boxes with the white and black things stickin' out of it, and a frien' tol' me - if you stick this really HOT pointer into it, that'll fix the problem! Just open the hood, and stick it in, wiggling around those wires and little black things with 8 legs. If you don't see any smoke coming out, close the hood and it should work again!
And THAT, got me eve MORE hooked! And well ... here I am!
---
I shouldn't type these 1/2 awake made up stories, until I've had enough coffee.
But there - the moral of the story? YES! Opamps are a HELLUVA lot easier to deal with than those bloody guitar things! (Even though I've borrowed one to start making punk and Killing Joke influenced tunes, again. ) |
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tjookum
Joined: May 25, 2010
Posts: 360
Location: Netherlands
Audio files: 26
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:16 am Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Ha ha! Yes, headphones were what gave my eardrums a beating! Those old Walkmans used to be seriously loud!!! My son gave me a listen of his iPod when he first got it and there I was poking my finger up as if to indicate more volume... |
My dad works with deaf people and Ive seen my share, great friendly people but it's not the easiest of lives. The headphones were already limited when I got my first, but going to a lot of very hard electronic music concerts has ruined it quite a bit. I now always keep a set of earplugs in my bag and stopped listening to headphones all together, why not do your listening while you're at home with nice speakers?
_________________
There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
Hunter S. Thompson
movies
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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:57 am Post subject:
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Hi General Tjookum! Yes, the headphones were gone years ago. I may be a fool but I come from a generation where to appreciate music it needs to be played on max volume! Also, treble down- bass on full! My son who is more into 'Audio Engineering' and (insert Rykhaart "cough cough" here) 'music', tells me that I haven't got a clue. And guess what? He's probably right! But the bass on full has been part of my heritage for want of a better word. That's why you went and saw bands like the Stranglers- for the experience of sticking your head in a speaker until your ears hurt for a week afterwards! When I listen to music I want to feel like I am there! None of this supermarket volume level for me! As far as music goes, I haven't the slightest interest in it at all. I just want to create sound which makes people clap... clap their hands over their ears! I want to inflict the 'harmonica and dog phenomena', the 'knife scraping a dinner plate', the 'chalk or fingernails down a blackboard' or the 'rubbed together polystyrene' technique upon (cough cough, again) 'humanity'...(whatever that is). Once I have enough apparatus built I would like to inflict as much torment on the eardrums of the sapien species as possible! SOUND RAPE is my mission....
...and then -Minus- woke up, and it was all just a dream.
Repeat after me: There's no place like home..... |
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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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| Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject:
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Hey Draal...... ?
Draal...... ?
..... ?
How's the baby going? |
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Draal
Joined: May 18, 2010
Posts: 308
Location: Oak Park, IL
Audio files: 5
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:03 am Post subject:
Baby |
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Minus,
We've finally escaped 'cough' left the hospital yesterday! Baby Adam is a healthy 8.8 pound boy and quite the eater. On the lunetta front I have a mass of wires finally connected and I have some simple plastic panels that I'm in the process of connecting bolts to. I have an angled framed box to connect these 'modules' together.
A very incomplete lunetta for now but I'll build it piece by piece during baby's naps . As for me, I find it hard to type with just a couple hours sleep. (You should see how many typos I'm making . Must...get...more...coffee.....
Anyways, I'll post pics and sounds hopefully before lil' Adam goes to college! As for now, I must get back to the diaper rash trenches! |
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RF
Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1502
Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:16 am Post subject:
Re: Baby |
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| Draal wrote: | | Baby Adam is a healthy 8.8 pound boy and quite the eater. |
Congrats Draal!
bruce
_________________
www.sdiy.org/rfeng
"I want to make these sounds that go wooo-wooo-ah-woo-woo.”
(Herb Deutsch to Bob Moog ~1963) |
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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:53 am Post subject:
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WOOOO HHHHHOOOOOO! Congratulations here too! Good to see it all went well. Hopefully by the time Adam goes to college, Lunetta will be recognized as an area of study. Imagine getting a degree in Lunetta Synthesis!
I can relate to the 2 hours of sleep situation! Been some time since I was in that boat... Well actually, I've come full circle! Lunetta's and babies BOTH deprive us of sleep!
Maybe you can hook up some creative patch and come up with a melody generating baby sleep inducer or something... and post some schematics. |
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Ajax
Joined: Apr 05, 2010
Posts: 63
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:15 am Post subject:
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| Congratulations Draal Being a teenager, I want to apologize on behalf of all teenage angst you're soon to encounter. We dont really mean it! |
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