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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » G2 Patches - Completed » Classic
classic synths?
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
Posts: 2664
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:16 am    Post subject: classic synths? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all

Not sure about the category for these ones, does classic imply moog, arp, prophet 5 etc?

This one is not meant to duplicate the architecture of the minimoog, just capture some of the character. The only things I need to explain are the imperfection circuits. The first one uses two D type flip-flops to detect the beating between oscillator pairs. The output of the flip-flops and some gated combinations are mixed into the fm input in a feedback configuration. This is supposed to emulate the 'bus noise phase locking' of the minimoog oscillator bank. It does help 'loosen' the sound in a way that differs from applying purely random deviations. The second circuit is a lot simpler and just makes the other two oscillators go sharp higher up the keyboard. This is because analogue vco's normally create a basic sawtooth wave by integrating the current from an exponential converter in a capacitor. When the voltage at the output reaches max, a brief pulse discharges the capacitor and the cycle repeats. The discharge pulse period is constant and very fast, insignificant at low frequencies, its effect on pitch is more pronounced the higher you go because it represents a larger percentage of the total cycle. Although the mini has a high freq trim for each oscillator, it's generally accepted that it is always a bit sharp up top.
The overdrive module is expensive in terms of dsp usage but I think it is required despite Rob's (very elegant) warmth trick in the mixer. Any more than a little overdrive however and it starts to sound like an MS-20

Speaking of Korg, the next patch is just a quickie to illustrate how the FltPhase can be used as a very steep bandpass filter. The first variation is the 'pitched noise' from a Korg 700 (minikorg).
Does anyone know if this is similar to Roland's new 'sideband filter' effect?


mininew.pch2
 Description:
minimoogish

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 Filename:  mininew.pch2
 Filesize:  1.75 KB
 Downloaded:  2267 Time(s)


PitchedNoise.pch2
 Description:

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 Filename:  PitchedNoise.pch2
 Filesize:  1.13 KB
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Sander_k



Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 57
Location: The Netherlands
G2 patch files: 16

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
The first one uses two D type flip-flops to detect the beating between oscillator pairs


I have a minimoog next to my clavia and i'm closely imitating it just for the fun. And i'm running out of morphs! Razz

I even noticed that when noise source is 'alone' it's not shivering.
but when an Osc1 is added in the mix, the noise starts to shiver with it. And when Osc2 is added, the noise starts to vary in amplitude on the beating between those osc's...

So far i managed to recreate the sound of the mini, but only for the saw-tooths, and without the filter. The filter is impossible to imitate (not to mention the envelopes..pffoeh)

i'm also thinking of creating a monopoly patch.

What i noticed about the G2 is that the saw comes really close to analog synths, but the sine and triangle is a little lousy..
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egw
Stream Operator


Joined: Feb 01, 2003
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Location: Asheville NC
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've learned never to say "impossible" when talking about the NM. Usually within a few hours someone will post a patch that does it.
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
Posts: 2664
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I even noticed that when noise source is 'alone' it's not shivering.
but when an Osc1 is added in the mix, the noise starts to shiver with it. And when Osc2 is added, the noise starts to vary in amplitude on the beating between those osc's...

I have not noticed this. But I always thought the Mini’s noise lacked guts compared to other synths. The transistors used in noise circuits are supposed to be hand picked for level and quality of noise. As far as the shivering is concerned, I would repeat the test when the Mini has had time to warm up. Seriously, there is some sort of companding in the minimoog signal chain.

Quote:
So far i managed to recreate the sound of the mini, but only for the saw-tooths, and without the filter. The filter is impossible to imitate (not to mention the envelopes..pffoeh)

The filter is not easy to get exactly right, mind you, no two Moog filters sound exactly the same. A FltClassic with a little distortion is close enough for me and it’s great to be able to ‘leave out’ that horrible IM distortion.

Moog has legendary envelope attacks but the reality is that the punchy sound is caused not so much by super fast attack rates, but DC bleed in the VCA. This DC from the envelopes gives your voice coils a good kick at the start of a note.
You may like to experiment with using the shaper modules on the envelopes to get subtle (or not) changes to the curve shapes. This makes a sometimes surprising difference for filter contours especially.

Quote:
i'm also thinking of creating a monopoly patch.

What i noticed about the G2 is that the saw comes really close to analog synths, but the sine and triangle is a little lousy..


I think you mean the G2 Triangle and sine are perfect, making them sound lousy. I can’t see why a good analogue triangle wave would be much different to a G2 but the Sine is a different story. It’s just a triangle going through a very approximate diode based sine shaper, even a good analogue oscillator’s sine has up to 10% distortion. Just distort the G2 sine to taste. Tracking filters on saw or square waves also give nice results but cost more DSP.

I worked in music retail when the Monopoly first came out. My strongest memory of it was being dissapointed with the sound. The modulation potential was great but the basic sound IMHO was flat and characterless. Probably why it flopped as a product. The irony is, being produced in quite low numbers makes it rare today and so more desirable.
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Sander_k



Joined: Jan 28, 2005
Posts: 57
Location: The Netherlands
G2 patch files: 16

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I have not noticed this. But I always thought the Mini’s noise lacked guts compared to other synths. The transistors used in noise circuits are supposed to be hand picked for level and quality of noise. As far as the shivering is concerned, I would repeat the test when the Mini has had time to warm up. Seriously, there is some sort of companding in the minimoog signal chain

Well the mini was on for a few hrs so that was not it. It's like they influence each others amplitude. The noise becomes more dirty when an Osc is added. I cannot put it different than that the noise shivers with the frequency of the oscillators; i listened very carefully with closed headphones.

Quote:
The filter is not easy to get exactly right, mind you, no two Moog filters sound exactly the same. A FltClassic with a little distortion is close enough for me and it’s great to be able to ‘leave out’ that horrible IM distortion.

Moog has legendary envelope attacks but the reality is that the punchy sound is caused not so much by super fast attack rates, but DC bleed in the VCA. This DC from the envelopes gives your voice coils a good kick at the start of a note.
You may like to experiment with using the shaper modules on the envelopes to get subtle (or not) changes to the curve shapes. This makes a sometimes surprising difference for filter contours especially.

thanks! sounds good.. Smile

Quote:
I think you mean the G2 Triangle and sine are perfect, making them sound lousy. I can’t see why a good analogue triangle wave would be much different to a G2 but the Sine is a different story. It’s just a triangle going through a very approximate diode based sine shaper, even a good analogue oscillator’s sine has up to 10% distortion. Just distort the G2 sine to taste. Tracking filters on saw or square waves also give nice results but cost more DSP.
that's about it yes, thanks again!

I'll try avoiding the word impossible when it comes to G2! Wink
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