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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Shift registors? What are they for?
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Oweng4000



Joined: Jan 28, 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject:  Shift registors? What are they for? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just wondering, what do shift registers do as far as audio? Everyone has one in their lunetta, but i'm very confused as to what they do.
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DGTom



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For lunettas you can use them in just about anyplace you would normally use a divider, but they are a little more interesting because you can set-up static or fluctuating loops.
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Oweng4000



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, but that made me even more confused than before. Embarassed
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Oweng4000



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just realized how rude that sounded. I'm a noob at this, so I have no idea what dividers do either.
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Kabzoer



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They divide the squarewave that goes to the input and a square wave with a lower frequency comes out at the output.
A basic divider is the cd4040 and it divides by 2, 4, 8, 16, etc. So it makes the output by every division by 2 an octave lower. That's all i can say about dividers, I hope it helped...
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DGTom



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry, I guess there are no two ways of working with a lunetta that are alike, but, in general, you take 1 or more high frequency squarewaves, divide them, combine them with logic etc. shift registers are just another cog in the machine.

shift registers aquire data (the outputs of clocks, logic, dividers) & then store and/or distribute it, depending on the IC in question.


for what its worth, audio or 'music' or whatever kind of emerges from lunettas but its hard to think / talk about them in audio terms... just mess with the data till it sounds cool Very Happy
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Kabzoer



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's all that can be said about it!
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droffset



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pasting from the document:
...
Shift registers have two kinds of inputs, Clocks and Data.

Think of clocks as usually regular predictable on/off streams. 1010101 over and over. Any oscillator can be a clock. It sets the timing for the shifting.
Think of Data as less predictable streams of highs and low. instead of 101010101, you can get stuff like 10010111100010010100110101001. See?

So a shift register is like passing a bucket of water down a line of people. The first person passes on a full bucket of water, and it goes down the line of people. Then he passes an empty bucket of water down the line. The clock determines the speed of the passing down the line of outputs, and the data input determines the high or low status being passed down the line of outputs. That's why we need logic gates to make interesting irregular streams of data to pass down the line.

You could up the clocks to audio rates and listen to the shift reg outputs.
Or build the 4051/4017 melody genereator and use the shift reg outpus as our A,B,C selectors.
Or send those through resistors(which results in varying analog voltages) into a VCO and listen to them. Any of your oscillators will be good for that, try making a slow oscillator and sending your voltage into the circuit at one of the legs of the potentiometer. The oscillator will wig out, make sure you're listening to it. If that's one of your main logic oscillators then it will flip out, good times good times.


And then your one logic gate output of interesting data gets turned into several outputs of interesting irregular data. LEDs will help visualize what's happening there.
...

Some people do 'white noise' generation with shift registers too, take some speedy signals, run them through some gates and send them through the shift reg, and then connect some of the outputs back into the gate inputs for data feedback, not sure how else to describe that.

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Edit: Spelling mistakes.
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

basically the best advice I can give anyone is to get a breadboard and just experiment. As long as you got your power connections in place you can try pretty much anything you want.

I've had some successes with using diodes, LED's, LDR's and all kinds of parts between different pins or IC's.

And in general I think LED's are invaluable for their visual feedback of the different datastreams.

just have fun Smile

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stolenfat



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

not exactly a shift register like the 4024, but definitely a form of one.
this applet shows a ripple counter really well.

http://falstad.com/circuit/e-counter8.html

(plus that whole website is suuuuuper useful and one of the best resources on the interweb)


shift registers need to be played with, honestly they allow your lunetta to just go nuts even harder.

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Kabzoer



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I made a link for the shift register too:
wow, that's a big link...

[Edit Blue Hell: shortened it a bit]
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stolenfat



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@ Kabzoer: Thats it my boy! Nice demo!
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Kabzoer



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They should make a thumbs up system Very Happy
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Oweng4000



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:41 am    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks guys. That falstad example really helped. Now I just have to order a bunch of these babys. Is it economically feasible to order 10 of each one of the cd4000 series?
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inlifeindeath



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this is an option: http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_84970_-1
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Is it economically feasible to order 10 of each one of the cd4000 series?

In theory, yes. In practice it's a lot smarter to buy when you need them. I started with "ten of each" of the most common IC's and I still have a lot of them left without any real use for them. IC's are light and cheap, if you can find a webshop wich will ship them through regular letter sized mail you can get the IC you want in under 2 days, and it's cheaper than having a huge stockpile laying around.

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Top Top



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Shift registors? What are they for? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oweng4000 wrote:
Just wondering, what do shift registers do as far as audio? Everyone has one in their lunetta, but i'm very confused as to what they do.


4031 is a fun and easy to understand one - basically it is a fixed 64 step clocked logic delay. It can be looped back into itself to make 64 step repeating patterns (on/off values only).



Not the most common, but a few places do carry it.

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Psyingo



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i've used the 4031 as a weird buffer repeater thing for glitchy effects and also as a 64 step sequencer, if you AND gate the output with the incoming clock. 64 step patterns! sure beats a 4017... although you dont have access to each bit separately it's good for longer patterns.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Psyingo wrote:
if you AND gate the output with the incoming clock


Curious about this part - why do you need to AND gate the output with the clock?

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Psyingo



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Top Top wrote:
Psyingo wrote:
if you AND gate the output with the incoming clock


Curious about this part - why do you need to AND gate the output with the clock?


for triggering of sounds, say a drum circuit or an envelope generator.. or to clock a shift register or counter or another sequencer; as examples. otherwise sequential ON steps will 'bleed' together as one long gate instead of discrete steps.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Psyingo wrote:

for triggering of sounds, say a drum circuit or an envelope generator.. or to clock a shift register or counter or another sequencer; as examples. otherwise sequential ON steps will 'bleed' together as one long gate instead of discreet steps.


Oh, right on, I get it now. I have used more as a "realtime" recorder, like in the video, so holding high states for their duration is good in that case.

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Psyingo



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Top Top wrote:
Psyingo wrote:

for triggering of sounds, say a drum circuit or an envelope generator.. or to clock a shift register or counter or another sequencer; as examples. otherwise sequential ON steps will 'bleed' together as one long gate instead of discreet steps.


Oh, right on, I get it now. I have used more as a "realtime" recorder, like in the video, so holding high states for their duration is good in that case.


if you want to use it as a realtime recorder for percussion i would suggest the AND gate method. holding the note would actually provide retriggering.
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NOISEBOB



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2021 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bumping this for value
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mike page



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2021 4:41 am    Post subject: who likes short shorts? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm making a thingy with a 4015 shift reg. It has a rotary switch to select which output feeds back to the data in.

Ive noticed the switch is 'make before break', briefly shorting adjacent outputs when its moved. Is this a going to damage the 4015 ?
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's definitely not ideal. If both outputs are high or low at the same time it shouldn't matter much but otherwise you are
shortly shorting them. It might work fine but you could add diodes to the outputs and a pulldown resistor on the main switch contact.

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