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robsol
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Joined: Apr 24, 2009 Posts: 2508 Location: Bristol UK
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blue hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24524 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:02 pm Post subject:
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Ah yes .. how some education works to kill the joy .. I had to go to music school at some stage .. one of the main initial complaints of the teacher was that I didn't position the notes nicely on the bars .. which taught me that music was about making the drawings nice .. boring stuff .. better quit it.
Anyways .. math is like art, yup :-)
Will read some more from those links later. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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AlanP
Joined: Mar 11, 2014 Posts: 746 Location: New Zealand
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robsol
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Joined: Apr 24, 2009 Posts: 2508 Location: Bristol UK
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 3:44 am Post subject:
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Well, I don't agree with the statement that maths was only invented to solve real world problems. A lot of it was "invented" to solve imaginary problems with no real world applications (at the time), or just playing with symbols, rather like poetry. The guy lacks a bit of imagination. _________________ Muied Lumens Sub Forum
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MusicMan11712
Joined: Aug 08, 2009 Posts: 1082 Location: Out scouting . . .
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:04 am Post subject:
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| robsol wrote: | | Well, I don't agree with the statement that maths was only invented to solve real world problems. A lot of it was "invented" to solve imaginary problems with no real world applications (at the time), or just playing with symbols, rather like poetry. The guy lacks a bit of imagination. |
JMO, but here goes:
(1) Math was invented so that pizza can be shared by 3 or 4 or 6 people, each having 4, 3, or 2 slices, or by 4 or 8 people, each having 2 or 1 slice--all respectively.
(2) Math requires a cognitive process sometimes referred to as abstraction.
(2.1) Math is based on (a) philosophy, (b) logic, (c) symbolism.
(2.2) Mathematicians (a) strive for, (a') appreciate, (a'') celebrate and (b) enjoy, (b') delight in, (b'') celebrate philosophical, logical, and symbolic consistency.
. . .
(2.n) Those who love math seek out puzzles, anomalies, enigmas, etc. where none have been before.
(3) Some people prefer other pursuits, for whatever reason(s), and should be entitled to their ways of being in the world without fear of recrimination, persecution, and/or prosecution.
Just-my-opinion(s)
Steve |
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blue hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24524 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:11 pm Post subject:
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Hah, that PDF was a great read - everyone should have teachers like that :-) _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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blue hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24524 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:14 pm Post subject:
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| robsol wrote: |
Well, I don't agree with the statement that maths was only invented to solve real world problems. A lot of it was "invented" to solve imaginary problems with no real world applications (at the time), or just playing with symbols, rather like poetry. The guy lacks a bit of imagination. |
And also it sez that cooking should be done from a cookbook .. nonsense  _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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AlanP
Joined: Mar 11, 2014 Posts: 746 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:11 pm Post subject:
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His point was that if you can't do the problems in a textbook, it's because you didn't read HOW to do them at the start, the same way that if you can't cook, it's because you can't follow written instructions in a cookbook.
And I do appreciate that the article is on a decidedly different angle to the OP. |
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MusicMan11712
Joined: Aug 08, 2009 Posts: 1082 Location: Out scouting . . .
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:25 am Post subject:
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Let me add another 2 cents worth to the discussion:
In a way, it's like the nature v. nurture argument--i.e., a straw man. It's BOTH and in each individual for some aspects of experience on some days in some contexts, sometimes nature prevails and sometimes nurture prevails and sometimes we take deliberate measures to counterbalance one and/or the other when we are aware of what is at play.
To use the cooking analogy, I know how to read, I have many cookbooks, and sometimes in my life I have followed recipes. I also have handwritten recipes from my mom. Nevertheless, I have developed my own method of looking at numerous recipes (nowdays on the internet, not in cookbooks), distilling the essence (what is essential, what is optional, what is constant or near constant, what is variable, etc.), understanding the process, internalizing all that, and then making my own recipe.
I feel fortunate that I watched mom cook and even helped sometimes in the process of food preparation. I am fortunate that I sat down with her when I was older and discussed how she made things.
So, from both nature and nurture I can tweak mom's recipes to make vegetarian variations--sometimes without even reading the recipe.
For natural learners, all education is self-education. Maybe this is true even for non-natural learners, too.
Of course, some people don't cook for whatever reason(s) they have.
OK. That's my 2 cents worth. Thank you for reading it. |
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robsol
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Joined: Apr 24, 2009 Posts: 2508 Location: Bristol UK
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:47 am Post subject:
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Everybody learns stuff differently, just as they solve problems in different ways. Some people may have a problem learning how to do something in a textbook, step-by-step way.
What I get from Lockhart's Lament is that you can learn to solve mathematical problems the "messy" way, not the way that they teach you in school. I find it liberating, and look at maths in a new light, although I have already used this approach in my daily life. Not trying to convert anyone though!  _________________ Muied Lumens Sub Forum
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MusicMan11712
Joined: Aug 08, 2009 Posts: 1082 Location: Out scouting . . .
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:41 pm Post subject:
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| robsol wrote: | What I get from Lockhart's Lament is that you can learn to solve mathematical problems the "messy" way, not the way that they teach you in school. I find it liberating, and look at maths in a new light, although I have already used this approach in my daily life. Not trying to convert anyone though!  |
That reminds me: a few years ago I took a graduate course for teachers on best practices in teaching math. I seem to recall we were given classroom tools for helping students to discover and present math concepts to their classmates. Part of the idea is that there are many ways to explain each math concept and the role of the teacher is to create environments conducive that allowed for multiple approaches.
I think that is consistent with what you are saying. |
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robsol
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Joined: Apr 24, 2009 Posts: 2508 Location: Bristol UK
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:08 pm Post subject:
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| MusicMan11712 wrote: | | robsol wrote: | What I get from Lockhart's Lament is that you can learn to solve mathematical problems the "messy" way, not the way that they teach you in school. I find it liberating, and look at maths in a new light, although I have already used this approach in my daily life. Not trying to convert anyone though!  |
That reminds me: a few years ago I took a graduate course for teachers on best practices in teaching math. I seem to recall we were given classroom tools for helping students to discover and present math concepts to their classmates. Part of the idea is that there are many ways to explain each math concept and the role of the teacher is to create environments conducive that allowed for multiple approaches.
I think that is consistent with what you are saying. |
Yeah, sure. I didn't really feel I belonged in the educational system, although I miss seeing the light in someone's eyes who have just come to the realization of something new. That's priceless.  _________________ Muied Lumens Sub Forum
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