Author |
Message |
A E J O T Z
Joined: Aug 14, 2011 Posts: 423 Location: Griffith, Indiana, USA
Audio files: 148
|
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:55 pm Post subject:
Sounds beautiful, record it, play it back, sounds like crap. Subject description: sometimes very subtle sonic events don't record well |
|
|
I used to have this problem more when I used multi-track tape recorders.
Now I use a digital recorder that has an interface much like a tape recorder.
The problem is that I play and record a part, then play it back. I play another part that meshes and interweaves with the first in sonically magical ways. I'm hypnotized by the interactions of the sounds as I play and record them. But when I play them back, the magic is gone. That subtle synergetic interplay didn't survive the recording process.
It doesn't always happen, of course. But it's very frustrating to think you've captured something wonderful, and when you open the box, it's empty.
Have any of the rest of you experienced this? I'm sure some of you must have, since I've experienced it when using very different instruments and recorders. _________________ AEJOTZ is pronounced "A-Jotz"
retro-futurism now
electronics = magic
free albums at http://aejotz.bandcamp.com
listen to genre-defying synthetic music at http://sat-5.com |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Grumble
Joined: Nov 23, 2015 Posts: 1294 Location: Netherlands
Audio files: 30
|
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:47 am Post subject:
|
|
|
If this is happening while you listen over speakers (not headphones) it is possible that phase differences you hear do not record the same way and there you will have a difference between the heard and recorded sound
Maybe THIS tells it somewhat more understandable... _________________ my synth |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
|
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:04 am Post subject:
|
|
|
There may be some psychological stuff going on as well ... at least .. sometimes I have this wonderful automatic semi random playing stuff .. but often when I record it .. it just does not work .. doing retake after retake .. the automation seems to know it is being recorded ... or .. my brains work differently on doing an 'official' recording .. no idea .. just an observation. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
DrJustice
Joined: Sep 13, 2004 Posts: 2114 Location: Morokulien
Audio files: 4
|
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
In the room I currently use for music making there is a difference in the sound depending on where I'm placed while listening. It's the nodes and anti-nodes in the room playing their part I guess. The degree of difference also depend on the sounds themselves (which frequencies hits nodes where in the room).
I wouldn't say that the differences are huge, as in magic-robbing, but that's using my room, my sounds and my ears... yours may be very different.
I'd not rule out the effect that Jan is suggesting, at least to some degree - I know it's real in my case. You know, all hot/tensed/adrenaline-fueled/serotonin-laden/whatever when playing and recording a part, then when I cool down, perception can be a bit different. |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
A E J O T Z
Joined: Aug 14, 2011 Posts: 423 Location: Griffith, Indiana, USA
Audio files: 148
|
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:33 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
I should have explained it better.
I played the tune and listened to it in the same room with the same speakers and amplifier when recording AND when playing back the recording. So the difference was the result of something that was lost (or added?) going from the original sounds to the recorded sounds.
Even high sample rate digital recording isn't quite the same as the original sound. My BOSS BR-600 records at a sample rate of 44.1kHz. When I play the original recording from the recorder, the cool effect seems more subtle but still present. But when I export to WAV and play that back the effect is gone.
So if you want to hear my cool tune you'll just have to come over to my house.
------
On the other hand, I might be a dumbass.
I just realized/remembered that when I was playing and recording the tune I was facing my keyboard stand, 90 degrees from when I was facing my computer and playing recordings back. My speakers are on either side of my computer.
So if you want to hear my tune properly, just put speakers exactly like mine in a room the same dimensions as mine and turn your head to the right. (You might also need to put two or three cats on the bed for the proper acoustic damping.) _________________ AEJOTZ is pronounced "A-Jotz"
retro-futurism now
electronics = magic
free albums at http://aejotz.bandcamp.com
listen to genre-defying synthetic music at http://sat-5.com |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
DrJustice
Joined: Sep 13, 2004 Posts: 2114 Location: Morokulien
Audio files: 4
|
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:46 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
I can't see how modern high resolution AD/DA can make any difference in the magic retention of a recording unless there's something flat out wrong with the system in question. Or at least if the magic disappears when you "limit" things to 100dB dynamic range and 20kHz bandwidth, it must have been extremely minute and/or fragile to begin with (?)
Oh well, as you suggest perhaps recordings should come with a detailed floor plan with materials and furniture specification and a list of necessary ancillaries such as cats and dogs, their exact breed, size and number etc.. Also instructions for glasses on or off, amount of facial hair and other acoustic disturbances |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Grumble
Joined: Nov 23, 2015 Posts: 1294 Location: Netherlands
Audio files: 30
|
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:49 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
soo my post about recording with a dummy head wasn't so stupid afterall _________________ my synth |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
|
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:25 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Heh .. that reminds me on the headphone reversed thingie .. sometimes music sounds different when the headphones are on 'right side left' .. as in backwards .. reversed. Sometimes doing that to hear things better. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
PHOBoS
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 5591 Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 705
|
Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
don't forget that the best music doesn't let itself be recorded. I think we've all been there where you play something
that you think sounds great only to find out you forget to press record or something went wrong with the recording.
see also
Blue Hell wrote: | .. but often when I record it .. it just does not work .. doing retake after retake .. the automation seems to know it is being recorded ... |
_________________ "My perf, it's full of holes!"
http://phobos.000space.com/
SoundCloud BandCamp MixCloud Stickney Synthyards Captain Collider Twitch YouTube |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
A E J O T Z
Joined: Aug 14, 2011 Posts: 423 Location: Griffith, Indiana, USA
Audio files: 148
|
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:07 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Grumble wrote: | soo my post about recording with a dummy head wasn't so stupid afterall |
Apparently I already use a dummy head... it's on my shoulders! _________________ AEJOTZ is pronounced "A-Jotz"
retro-futurism now
electronics = magic
free albums at http://aejotz.bandcamp.com
listen to genre-defying synthetic music at http://sat-5.com |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Grumble
Joined: Nov 23, 2015 Posts: 1294 Location: Netherlands
Audio files: 30
|
Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:39 am Post subject:
|
|
|
_________________ my synth |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
A E J O T Z
Joined: Aug 14, 2011 Posts: 423 Location: Griffith, Indiana, USA
Audio files: 148
|
Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:20 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Blue Hell wrote: | There may be some psychological stuff going on as well ... at least .. sometimes I have this wonderful automatic semi random playing stuff .. but often when I record it .. it just does not work .. doing retake after retake .. the automation seems to know it is being recorded ... or .. my brains work differently on doing an 'official' recording .. no idea .. just an observation. |
My mindset always changes the moment I push the "record" button.
It's not that I always choke or tense up, but the focus always changes in some way.
Sometimes I improvise a great musical moment, but duplicating that "accident" deliberately for recording just cannot be quite the same. _________________ AEJOTZ is pronounced "A-Jotz"
retro-futurism now
electronics = magic
free albums at http://aejotz.bandcamp.com
listen to genre-defying synthetic music at http://sat-5.com |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Acoustic Interloper
Joined: Jul 07, 2007 Posts: 2067 Location: Berks County, PA
Audio files: 89
|
Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:41 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Grumble wrote: | If this is happening while you listen over speakers (not headphones) it is possible that phase differences you hear do not record the same way and there you will have a difference between the heard and recorded sound |
My thoughts exactly when reading this just now.
AEJOTZ wrote: | I played the tune and listened to it in the same room with the same speakers and amplifier when recording AND when playing back the recording. So the difference was the result of something that was lost (or added?) going from the original sounds to the recorded sounds. |
Grumble's comment sounds right to me. The recording apparatus are not where you ears were at when you were listening. Possible phase differences.
I might not believe this, except that I discovered some time ago, when playing ensemble zero-input-mixers (a.k.a. no-input mixers), the final mix in the air of the room needs to be done in the air in the room. You don't get the same effects mixing electronically because the room acoustics, placement, etc. contribute phase variations. Some things just have to be made and heard live, I think. _________________ When the stream is deep
my wild little dog frolics,
when shallow, she drinks. |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|