electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » WREN
WREN Sequencers & LFO
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [11 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
patchrix_patches



Joined: Nov 22, 2021
Posts: 5
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:58 pm    Post subject: WREN Sequencers & LFO
Subject description: Sequencer & LFO reset/sync behavior
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I first learned of WREN's existence late last year when reading Michael Hetrick's Euro Reakt thesis. I think it's wonderful. Very Happy I've been learning to use WREN alongside other software modular synths (Reaktor, Voltage Modular, even the Nord G2 demo).

I've had success transmitting MIDI clock from Reason (v 11) and routing WREN's audio output to an audio track in Reason's sequencer.

When using WREN's MIDI Clock In module to sync a WREN sequencer to Reason's tempo, it works pretty well. Trigger and Reset inputs on the sequencer (pretty much any WREN sequencer so far) behave like I expect them to, using the Sync Divide setting to reset the sequencer at whatever step I want.

Also, when connecting a MIDI Clock In control output to a Clock Gen tempo control input, the Clock Gen appears to sync correctly to the MIDI tempo. The Clock Gen also seems to be sending the correct tempo to any WREN sequencer and/or Frequency Divider (one of my favorite modules).

However, once these connections are made, the Reset inputs of any or all of the modules start to behave unpredictably, or stop responding completely, preventing synchronization between modules and with Reason's MIDI clock.

It seems straightforward to make use of the trio of MIDI Clock In + Clock Gen (or any other LFO) + Frequency Divider to have access to 1/8 notes, 1/16 notes, etc., for drum rolls, triplets, or general rhythmic mayhem, but this won't work if the Reset inputs aren't responding.

What am I missing? I know there are aspects of WREN that work differently from hardware modules or other software synths, but I can't tell if I'm just using a combination of modules that were never meant to be used with each other, or if there's something happening behind the scenes that requires a few "helper" modules to make things work like I expect them to.

Again, I think WREN is awesome and it's really cool that you have rescued some Nord Modular DNA and expanded on it for students of synthesis like myself. Thank you so much!!!


regular_nord.gif
 Description:
 Filesize:  311.73 KB
 Viewed:  209 Time(s)

regular_nord.gif


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23745
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 268
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok ...

welcome patchrix_patches

... I've no idea Shocked as in .. I'm not sure what is going on ... can you post (an image of) a (simple) patch that will show the issue?

Maybe that will get my thoughts going Laughing

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
patchrix_patches



Joined: Nov 22, 2021
Posts: 5
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:11 pm    Post subject: Basic Seq16 patch Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you kindly! Image attached.

ClockGen sync output to Seq16 reset input, but the Seq16 does not reset. The same happens with a sync output from any other clock or LFO module.

The signal from the sync output does show up at the output below the reset input on the Seq16.

The ClockGen's reset input and the Frequency Divider's reset input are similarly unresponsive in this configuration.

When using only the MIDIClockIn module to trigger a sequencer, tempo and reset work perfectly, but I'd like to take advantage of the rate mult. on the MIDIClockIn to access a wider range of note divisions.

I'm really hoping I'm just making some silly mistake. I'd like to keep using WREN.

My favorite thing about WREN is that I can fit so many modules on the screen and not have to bother with zooming or scrolling. I find the scrolling & zooming required by VCV Rack or Reaktor Blocks distracts me from being able to look at the patch as a whole and consider it in its entirety. But then I could just be easily distracted. Confused


wren_seq_patch_no_reset.gif
 Description:
 Filesize:  90.23 KB
 Viewed:  174 Time(s)

wren_seq_patch_no_reset.gif


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23745
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 268
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Basic Seq16 patch Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

patchrix_patches wrote:
My favorite thing about WREN is that I can fit so many modules on the screen and not have to bother with zooming or scrolling. I find the scrolling & zooming required by VCV Rack or Reaktor Blocks distracts me from being able to look at the patch as a whole and consider it in its entirety. But then I could just be easily distracted. Confused


Heh, that's why the modules are so damn smal Laughing I hate scrolling & zooming too.

I think your patch should work - there may be a bug - will look into it and will let you know .. I'll have some time for it this week.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23745
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 268
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, can confirm that reset on the Seq16 behaves a little odd, the code looks weird too, it looks at the reset input only when the input clock is low .. so eh .. not a nice feature .. needs more time here .. the thing is a bit complicated with all the reversals and modulations.

I've never noticed that Shocked

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
patchrix_patches



Joined: Nov 22, 2021
Posts: 5
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:01 pm    Post subject: Sequencers Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool, thanks Jan! Really appreciate your help and your amazing work on the epic synth that is WREN.

I totally understand if there are issues with such a full-featured sequencer as the Seq16, clearly a sophisticated module.

I may have seen the same behavior on one or two other sequencers as well, possibly the GateSeq and maybe ProbSeq?

One lesson I'm getting from this is that I might try not to rely so heavily on sequencers in the future and familiarize myself with more basic modules (Logic, Math, Switch) for creating patterns or melodies. The sequencers in Reason and Reaktor Blocks have made me a bit lazy. sleeping
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23745
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 268
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I might have copied the code a bit here and there .. will look at that too.
_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
patchrix_patches



Joined: Nov 22, 2021
Posts: 5
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:06 am    Post subject: WREN Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

At one point started to build my own little polyphonic Nord Modular clone in Reaktor.

But then discovered WREN was way ahead of me.


nordlike.gif
 Description:
 Filesize:  33.48 KB
 Viewed:  130 Time(s)

nordlike.gif


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23745
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 268
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh .. that's too bad ... that I stopped you from making your own.

It was the Clavia modulars that stopped me from making Wren; or it woud have had a different name then, probably. At least it gave me a lot of nice swedish ideas!

I've looked at the code a bit more. The module, and indeed a couple of others, do sample a bunch of their inputs on the low to high clock transition (and on startup/F7 reset). For Reverse etc. this makes sense to keep things in sync and I can understand why I did that.

For reset this /could/ make sense too, but when syncing with external gear it is better when it is immediate of course.

I'm contemplating making an extra async reset input, as to not break old patches and to have both options. It could work like the startup reset (what happens when pressing the F7 key (or using menu Action/Reset)).

But first another coffee, and I need spend a handful of work hours still today.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23745
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 268
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
I'm contemplating making an extra async reset input, as to not break old patches and to have both options. It could work like the startup reset (what happens when pressing the F7 key (or using menu Action/Reset)).


And that is what I did.

See https://bluehell.nl/blogje/forums.html/2021/11/25/added-async-reset-to-a-couple-of-modules/ for more info.

See https://bluehell.nl/wren/modules.html for the updated help on the mentioned modules.

And .. to install a pre-release follow the instructions in the wiki : https://bluehell.nl/wiekietje/pmwiki.php/Wren/PreRelease

To me it looks like that would work way better for external sync .. too bad I just make self playing stuff .. or I'd have discovered this earlier ... anyway, may it help - please let me know.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
patchrix_patches



Joined: Nov 22, 2021
Posts: 5
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Oh .. that's too bad ... that I stopped you from making your own.


Not at all, it's still there for me to work on. Reaktor is the giant box of synth Legos I play with when not actually creating music.

And thanks again! (Yesterday was Thanksgiving here so lots of thanks being given all around.) The Seq16 is resetting, I'll keep playing with it and see what happens.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 1 [11 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » WREN
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use