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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
G2 engine and ms20 are friends!!
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Fozzie



Joined: Jun 04, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 2:21 pm    Post subject: G2 engine and ms20 are friends!!
Subject description: Analog G2 schmooze
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I treated myself on the last day of 2005 with a nice MS-20 (good as new) and a Siel Orchestra 2 (got a nice deal on both). Very nice to have some analog stuff next to the engine - it's my first venture into analog - very different character Cool

But the real treat is in the combination of G2 and MS20. I only realized the full potential of this combination tonight. Who needs a midi-cv converter, when those Japanese guys invented a perfect pitch-to-cv circuit when I was still in diapers? It works *really* well. I use a constant module through a switch and a amplifier module (set to 4x) and an out-module set to +6dB and guess what...... it is a working gate signal for "Trig In" on my MS20. The external signal processor (ESP) can also convert audio into trigger, but this part also does the pitch-to-cv conversion, and I like to have triggering and cv control separate. Works very steady. 16th note arpeggio's at 140 bpm are not trouble at all. As a bonus the possibility of audio from the G2 through the analog filters. All at once (woohoo for the 4 outs). Bliss. Heaven.

Had to share it with people who understand how this makes one smile from ear to ear. The 'misses' isn't one of that crowd Wink
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Fozzie



Joined: Jun 04, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

.....and the party continues........

Another way to get a signal from the G2 to the MS20: modulate the volume of the pitch signal going into the ESP --> now use the env-out into anything you like. Nice for a synced LFO.

So just to wrap up, independent:

Trigger
Pitch control (CV actually)
'Aux'

All without midi-cv convertor

drunken afro cheers flower king
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cebec



Joined: Apr 19, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

axiom got an ms20 to complement his g2x recently. i wonder if he's read this thread.
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Axiom



Joined: Feb 19, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yup, i've read just before go to sleep. Great choice dude Smile I've sold my MS20 just a week after tried it and keep the MS10. Oddly, I preferred the little brother Razz

Luca

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Fozzie



Joined: Jun 04, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's also nice to do FM thingies with the osc cv inputs (volt/Hz), or the total ext input (volt/oct). I use a cheap Behringer mic preamp to enhance the G2's output.

Results are not necessarily 'nice' or subtle, but it can give nice accidental results Cool Filter FM is also possible this way. Cool combination banana
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Afro88



Joined: Jun 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Any chance of some ms20-g2 mp3s? Very Happy
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I'm mostly messing around, but I guess I could record some of it to demonstrate the rough idea. I'll try to do it tonight.

Edit: well, I sort of promised, so here it is. It is really only to demonstrate the timbre changes of filter fm and linear fm. All note-control is via the G2; I play my piano --> midi --> G2 --> MS20 ESP / filter CV ins / vco cv in (for linear fm I add the cv value of the pitch detector in the ESP with a variable amount of the G2 waveform, amplified by a Behringer mic-100 preamp).
The first part of the mp3 is filter fm, using a bit of envelope 1 on the MS20 on the pitch, to get this 'unisono-bend' feel. There is a bit of portamento (coming from the G2 waveform).
Second and third part are linear FM examples, with a ratio setting between waveform going to the ESP for pitch detection & the waveform that 'does' the FM that is rather harmonic.
Fourth part is also the same fm, but now with a small sequenced G2 part.

Never mind the performance, that's not what this is about.


G2MS20.mp3
 Description:
Mono, untreated MS20 sound into my dspfactory card. No G2 audio in the audio signal path, G2 only provides waveforms for FM / note & trigger information

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 Filename:  G2MS20.mp3
 Filesize:  2.35 MB
 Downloaded:  1163 Time(s)

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Afro88



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds awesome! Great dirty character Cool
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey good this got bumped, had missed the mp3 earlier today.

To me the way the sound "breaks up" sounds interesting, like how it can go from clean to pretty dirty but still having a clear relation to the clean sound.

Some nice examples, sounds like fun indeed !

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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The Why Project



Joined: Dec 05, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great stuff!

What kind of signal from the G2 are you using to substract the pitch-cv?
Any specific waveform (sine being the purest) that works best?

Currently on travel, but can't wait until back home on Friday to try this
out!

Regards,

The Why Project
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sine works fine Wink
Other waves also, it doesn't matter much. For quick stuff like arp's you better take a separate out for trigger and a separate out for pitch.
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The Why Project



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fozzie wrote:
Sine works fine Wink
Other waves also, it doesn't matter much. For quick stuff like arp's you better take a separate out for trigger and a separate out for pitch.


Wicked Smile

Thanks,

The Why Project
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mayo313



Joined: Feb 14, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think Axiom's ms20 is now happily in my studio ..next to his ms10 little brother Very Happy
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Axiom



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ehi dude Very Happy nice to see you here.

Cheers,
Luca

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controlvoltage



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:30 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: mee too
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just got a NM1 and this thread opened my eyes to the possibilities of interfacing it with my little MS10... fun stuff! Thanks
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Axiom



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

check mine titled "when digital meets analog". i've interfaced my MS10 with the G2.

Cheers,
Luca

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dlt123



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:59 pm    Post subject: Nice Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Too Cool. I can't wait to get my NM and do some experimenting. Nice MP3.

DennisT
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Haven't been patching a lot lately, but had a very good time again yesterday night with my G2 and MS20. I always had some trigger issues; fast steady triggers were no problem, but triggers in a varying rythm did not work 100%. This has to do with the S-trig trigger inputs on an MS20; which need a constant high (>= +3V I believe) signal for a 'trigger off' message and a low signal or no signal at all for 'trigger on'.

I found out yesterday that by using a fast square osc with level converter (pos only), patched through a Behringer Mic100 preamp with the phase reverse button activated, gave a very reliable S-trig (OFF) signal. By interrupting this signal, an S-trig ON signal is given, also very reliably.

The strange thing is that if I use the level converter to make the square osc trig signal 'negative only' and deactivate the preamp phase reverse button (which should give the same result, right?) the triggering doesn't work anymore. Maybe another osc level bug, some asymmetric DC-prevention effect from the G2 DA convertors or a MIC100 thingie, I don't know yet.

I've included the patch for other peeps that use this combination. It is a really good combination (but I think I already hinted at that at the beginning of this patch Wink)

Oh, and did I mention that there's no obvious reason why this shouldn't work on a NM classic? Can't check, but unless the different DACs behave very differently, it should work.


MS20 TRIGGER.pch2
 Description:
A patch for getting proper S-trig trigger signals, osc frequency signals and an additional modulation signal (say for freq cutoff or other stuff) from a G2 into an MS20, using two audio outputs (3 and 4) and a cheap Behringer preamp (Mic100)

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 Filename:  MS20 TRIGGER.pch2
 Filesize:  2.73 KB
 Downloaded:  1247 Time(s)

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deknow



Joined: Sep 15, 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fozzie,

i'm confused by your strig description...you don't need any voltage, just short tip to ground. i've also used a vtrig (to run the sq10), but it lags behind the beat (ie, it moves to the next step after the trigger..which is what i think you are describing)...to do this properly, you need to build an adaptor. the diagrams for this are here:
http://electro-music.com/forum/post-45855.html

deknow
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

deknow wrote:
fozzie,

i'm confused by your strig description......deknow


I read it somewhere, I believe in one of the Korg MS manuals. I'm not sure whether it was also in the MS20 manual, but this is stated in the MS50 manual:
Quote:
This input jack is for the trigger signal that starts and stops the EG operation. When the voltage drops from +2.5V (or higher) to 0V (GND), or there is a change from an open condition to earth (GND), EG operation begins. When the voltage returns to +2.5V (or higher), or an open condition, EG operation ends.

In other words, you are perfectly right that for 'proper' s-triggering you should make such an adapter, but for lazy pragmatic people like me that don't mind a little jury-rigging, my solution works perfectly.

The problem with my first design was that I had inverted the trigger: by giving a short burst of HI-signal (which I thought was the trigger), it was a trigger-off message to the MS-20. By setting the adsr on the MS20, this is still workable, but not as good as it can be.
With the current patch / setup, triggering works exactly as it should, without lagging (I listened to the same sequence from the G2; there was no or virtually no delay between both sequences). TADAAA Cool

Edit:
This is stated in the MS20 manual
Quote:
(2) If you connect an output marked "-5V~+5V" (or any other continuously varying control voltage) to an input marked GND (which is a digital ON/OFF switch-type input), the section you are trying to control will turn OFF when the control voltage goes above +3V and it will turn On when the voltage goes below 0V. You can try this by connecting the Control Wheel output (-5V~+5V) to the EG1 TRIG IN ( ) input.

Note: it's a bit of a strange description, because what happens between 0V and +3V? Neither ON nor OFF?!? XOFF? NON Laughing ?
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I used to make Roland Gate -> Moog STrigger cables by wiring a transistor and resister inside the Jack, no power required.
It worked well with an MC202, Minimoog combination.
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Heya guys, just found out that it's also possible to use volume modulation of an audio stream into the ms20, through the env follower in the ms20 and into the filter freq inputs, to musically control the filter frequency (normal keyb tracking is not possible on the ms20 as the keyboard signal is Hz/volt and the filt freq inputs are Oct/volt). Attached is a little demo, in which you first hear a kinda random sequence played by the highpass filter in selfoscillation mode, then the regular oscillators join in and there's various things going on. I added an improvised pad track to give it some context, but it isn't brilliant (factory preset sound Shocked )


MS20EnvToFilterFreq.mp3
 Description:
Demo mp3 of the G2 modulating the filter frequencies of an MS20 by means of volume modulation. No midi/cv converter was used, the sequence is 100% MS20 sound but 100% G2 controlled. Pad is G2 sound.

Download
 Filename:  MS20EnvToFilterFreq.mp3
 Filesize:  2.32 MB
 Downloaded:  1027 Time(s)


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