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A Brief History of Synaesthesia and Music
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seraph
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:28 am    Post subject: A Brief History of Synaesthesia and Music Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A Brief History of Synaesthesia and Music
by Sean A. Day

Synaesthesia is the general name for a related set of various cognitive states having in common that stimuli to one sense, such as smell, are involuntarily simultaneously perceived as if by one or more other senses, such as sight or / and hearing (see Cytowic 1989; Baron-Cohen & Harrison 1993). For example, the sounds of musical instruments might make you see certain colors, each color specific and consistent with the particular instrument playing; a piano, for example, might produces a sky-blue cloud, and a tenor saxophone produce an image of electric purple neon lights. One highly documented case of synaesthesia involved Michael O. Watson, who felt at or within his right hand different flavors -- the flavor of spearmint, for example, felt like cool smooth glass columns (see Cytowic 1989, 1993).
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Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer

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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's a really interesting article. Thanks.

There is really something to this, but it's certainly not scientific.
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seraph
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov is said to have had synaesthetically colored musical keys:

B major
gloomy, dark blue with steel shine

Bb major
darkish

A major
clear, pink

Ab major
greysh-violet

G major
brownish-gold, light

F# major
greyish-green

F major
green, clear (color of greenery)

E major
blue, sapphire, bright

Eb major
dark, gloomy, grey-bluish

D major
daylight, yellowish, royal

Db major
darkish, warm

C major
white

Have you ever felt something like that Question
It does not make much sense but, somehow, I think he was right Exclamation

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I get different feeling for the different keys, but not necessarilly colors, not necessarailly those colors. Some people are more sensitive to color than others. I used to work in a building where the color of the walls made some people depressed. I didn't even notice the color until other people pointed it out.

When you hear music you sing along, even if silently. If the music is in a key that is not too good for your range, then you'll have an emotional reaction to it.

There are other effects. I'm a banjo player. We play almost everying in G, major and minor. So, when I hear music in G, maybe I feel more comfortable. Guitar players may feel that way about E, and piano players may feel that way about C.
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Michael Chocholak



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've always been fascinated by this - I've had it since I was a kid. Back then it caused me a fair amount of difficulty. I've adjusted to it and over the years it's overt 'symptoms' are not as noticable. Or, more likely, I've just gotten used to them. I do think it has had a major affect on my creative work. A very positive one.

In fact, that's what my piece Latent Desitation was about ->http://www.electronicscene.com/tracks/2718/9630/1/1/1/Michael_Chocholak_-_Latent_Destination.m3u (shameless plug). It's based on the painting of Wassily Kandinski who was himself a synesthet (and who disagreed with Rimsky-Korsakov's take on sound/color relationships)

Not sure what you mean about 'not scientific'. It is a recognized condition although no one yet knows the cause. Then again the hard and valid theories in the realm of brain function are as plentiful as they are in quantum physics.

Some see it as a defect where nerve sets fail to specialize. Which also assumes that we are all born as synesthets. On the other hand "Pythagoras had considered synesthesia to be the greatest philosophical gift and spiritual achievement."

That's a great in article at Thereminvox.com. Here's a few others;
http://courses.ats.rochester.edu/kraus/synaethesia.htm
http://www.doctorhugo.org/synaesthesia/index.htm
http://www.vislab.usyd.edu.au/gallery/music/alyons/history.htm

BTW I think you're right about musician comfort key zones. A guitarist at heart, I'll go for E without even thinking about it no matter what instrument I'm playing. Although I also notice, not surprisingly, that when I improvise outside that zone usually more interesting things happen. Cool

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have never quite made the connection between music and colors. I cannot really say that I can see how any combination of tonal events can have anything to do with color. What I get from music is ideas and treatmens of ideas. I think I have said severakl times here in this forum.. that music is about abstraction levels. On the other hand I see no problem in listeners getting visual information stimuli out of music. I do get abstract visual impulses when I listen to music, bit those are not connected to colour at all. I guess my brain treats these visual responses in another way. My visual responses are more like values, numbers, ideas, feelings and objects. I guess I need some electroshocks. Shocked

Anyway, it is wonderful how different we all experience music.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
"I have never quite made the connection between music and colors"

Hmmm...I wonder - what if a person is color blind? Do they associate music keys with shades of gray?



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good question!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmm...I wonder - what if a person is blind? Do they associate music keys with shades of what?
Shocked

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK.. what if the person is a blind sex maniac? Shocked
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK...I give up, you win
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shit, i expected some interesting thoughts on the subject. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, music can be very erotic. But maybe this is an emotional thing, not really what Synaesthesia is.

Speaking of emotion, in the American Civil War every unit had a band. They were used not just to entertain the troops, but to fire them up and get them enthusiastic about their duty. During the battles, the bugle calls and drums were critical tools of communication. For this reason, the musicians were often targeted for the same reason "command and control" is targeted today. I visited the Gettysburg Battlefield a few years ago. There are many monumnets. It is amazing to see how many musicians were killed in action there.

A friend had a relative who served in the Union Army during the Civil War. He has inherated a battle manual. Half the books consists of bugle calls in musical notation with drawings of battle formations with which they are associated. In many ways, battle was a ballet! Shocked

Today, battle is more like a video game while talking on a cell phone. See:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-1229.html
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Using musical signals in battle for communication purposes is a fairly old technology. I have a book about this somewhere. This technology gained popularity when gunpowder became popular. Gunsmoke pretty much killed visual signals on the battlefield.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, visual signals require that the people are looking at the signaler, a possibly fatal act. Also, battle was noisey with lots of shouting and guns and canons and stuff. A person yelling orders couldn't be heard. Each unit had their own calls so they wouldn't get confused by another units communication.

Getting back to the topic, I bet that after the war, survivors would relive the battle experience when they heard music that had elements of those calls. I guess those would be Pavlovian responses, not Synaesthesia.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, my father is still after all these years jumpy when he hears subbass booms and certain kinds of noises.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Hmmm...I wonder - what if a person is blind? Do they associate music keys with shades of what?


Gray - as opposed to Blue or Violet or Orange.....

My brother-in-law says he is color blind - he sees everything in gray-scale...

(of course - if he can't see color - how does he know he is really seeing gray? hmmmm...)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2004 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Hmmm...I wonder - what if a person is blind? Do they associate music keys with shades of what?


"The first reference ever made about the phenomena of "synesthesia" occured in John Locke's, Essay concerning Human Understanding. "When a blind man's friend asked him what he thought scarlet was, he said, "like the sound of a trumpet""

Although I guess that's really the other way around.

As far as 'blind sex maniacs'...

"Your search - "blind sex maniac" - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:
- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
- Try different keywords.
- Try more general keywords."

Perhaps you could take a break from the electroshock & try some research. You're bound to discover something, even if it's OT Very Happy .

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mezmer wrote:

As far as 'blind sex maniacs'...

"Your search - "blind sex maniac" - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:

Get rid of the quotation marks and you'll see Shocked Very Happy

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You are so right

Google says: 21 Old lady took two copulating hedgehogs for sex maniac An old ... she was sure there
was a sexual maniac over there ... 21:19 A blind mystic will look at your butt ... " Pravda.ru

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cloudscapes



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for this article. Smile I find this a very interesting subject. I know a couple people who have various forms of synaesthesia (auditory visual, colored letters, emotional numbers/letters) and I'm pretty sure I have a form of it myself (it's pretty sporadic, depending on how concentrated or passive I am).

If a person is blind.... good question. I think that because synaesthesia can be wired in so many different ways, that a born-blind person might smell or taste the keys instead of seeing them. Just a guess though. But if a person became blind at a later stage in life, or if the cause of the blindness is in the eye or elsewhere not directly in the brain, maybe he or she will still see colors?

There's a thought..

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