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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
268 times


Ok, let's try to up that number Very Happy

The other one you mentiond is this one I guess.

I love linx Very Happy

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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bbw



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject:  uh oh Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'm use mac...
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G2DREAM



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

270 with me!
I liked its sounds and now i am going to study its structure!
Thanks!
___________
cyber-evolution
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's just an emulation of the NordLead2(X) and only the first Program.
We are talking about porting all NordLead sounds into the G2 and are hoping for some converter software...

Wout
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bbw



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:04 pm    Post subject: Mac Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wout - is there a similar editor for Mac?

also, do you know who to contact in order to see if there could be some kind of software converter?

i guess i don't really see how automatic software conversion would be possible, unless whoever did it used YOUR G2X patch. it seems like it would have to be done on a patch by patch basis.

i'm willing to start programming. if others are willing to help that would be great. if we can agree on a configuration of modules that really gets that Nord Lead 2X sound - & solve the issues w/ unison mode sound, PW, LFO rate, & edgy-ness of OSC & ENV sound quality - maybe those that were willing could each convert a bunch (50 or 100 or whatever) of 2X patches to G2X. this would increase the man-hours on the task & would be a lot faster & more efficient than 1 person doing all of it. there are, i believe, about 600 patches on the 2X, correct?
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've got about 6500 NordLead patches on my computer, which could contain doubles, maybe about 2500, so it leaves us 4000???

These are only programs, not the performances...

We'll need a converter Smile

Wout
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bbw



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject:  ok... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok you need a converter for YOUR patches. i'm just talking about converting the factory set that comes w/ the Nord Lead 2X. that's ambitious enough as it is. you can convert your own patches on your own.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Could well be...

What I'm thinking of is a converter which transport the values the right way, not by just reading and adjusting the sound by hand.

My proposal...
Everybody who has both synths and is willing to do some patching is asked to do some (about 5) conversions by hand and all the same patches, so we are able to understand what is happening.
I will supply the parameter values of those patches.

We will discuss the architecture of the patch, if the right solutions are made, etc.

After that we know how a converter tool has to work and we'll ask the converter wizards if they can help... Smile

I have some days free of work the next two weeks. I'll write about the architecture of the published patch.

Wout
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bbw



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:17 am    Post subject: ok Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

great idea, wout.

so is there anybody out there w/ both synths ready to tackle this besides us?

(truth be told i am going to have to lay my hands on a Nord Lead 2X if no one else steps up, which is what i'm trying to avoid by making the Nord Modular G2X sound like a Nord Lead 2X.)

i do have an orginal Nord Lead (expanded) though. maybe this will be enough to work w/ for me, to get 5 of the same patches as everyone else working of the project, as long as we pick sounds w/ nor distortion, ring mod & orginal set (Nord Rack) OSC waveforms.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:44 am    Post subject: Re: ok Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbw wrote:
i do have an orginal Nord Lead (expanded) though. maybe this will be enough to work w/ for me, to get 5 of the same patches as everyone else working of the project, as long as we pick sounds w/ nor distortion, ring mod & orginal set (Nord Rack) OSC waveforms.

To the NordLead and NordLead2 there are no deferences concerning the factory patches. Everybody with these machines can check NO ringmodulator nor distortion in used in the presets... The card sounds are another story.

I will ask Clavia of the sysex of all NordLead2X patches.
BTW there are 891 programs stored in the NL2X, 320 percussion sounds and 200 performances... Still no converter needed? Very Happy
Okay, one bank is the original NordLead(2) factory preset.

Those 4000 patches on my computer (most of them are already in the archive) are mostly card sounds. Others are published by users.

Wout
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qfingers



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, I've been watching this thread since yesterday. I've orignally written a NordLead to Korg Triton Moss converter. So I have some of the code to handle the MIDI .syx files. It needs some work but it's at least a starting point. Plus, in g2ools, I wrote a DX7 to G2 converter. It was pretty easy to write. The complex portion was the parameter convertion. I posted a while ago that I wanted to create converters for several synth models. The NordLead is a good one to start with as it's a simple architecture. There are several ways to approach a converter for the various analog modeling synths available.

The "best" way is to only add the sections of the synth that are actually used in a patch. This maximizes the polyphony and minimizes the resource usage.

The next method with is how the DX7 to G2 converter works is to build a single G2 patch that contains all the blocks in a synth architecture and just adjust parameters. This method is probably the easiest.

With that said, I'm willing to do the converter but I would need help with the conversion of the parameters. I can do a one-to-one parameter convertion but that will not give good results. Someone with both units and is a little tech saavy to get the parameters values as close as possible will be needed.

Wout, I've looked at your NordLead patch a while ago and I would need you to make a list of NordLead parameters to G2 patch parameters. Some of the NordLead parameters may require several G2 patch parameters to be adjusted. You need to provide me with a list. The envelopes and pitch parameters are pretty easy. It's the moduation parameters that are a little more difficult.

So, with all that said, who's willing to provide the extra information I need? I will add the converter to g2ools when it's complete.

q
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iPassenger



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank god there are clever folks like u lot about. Interested to see how this goes, the N2 patch made by Wout does sound nice to me.
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bbw



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:16 am    Post subject: 2X > G2X Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Q - (very Bond...)

i am in Tempe. Smile

i think we're still going to need to do what Wout suggested - beta-test, if you will, different combinations of G2X modules w/ a small set of 2X patches to obtain a G2X patch that actually sounds the most like it.

i really do NOT think there will be a 1-1 mapping of G2X modules to 2X circuit. like i already said, there will need to be SOMETHING added in the patch to make the G2X OSC models more crunchy like the 2X. jason (SynthLord) agreed w/ this assessment

also, i don't think there should be any effects AT ALL in the patch, like the 2X - but i can see how someone down the road might want to add a delay to a lead sound, e.g., so maybe there should be fx modules built in to the patch, but bypassed so that if someone DID want to add something, they wouldn't have to add modules to EVERY SOUND.

if i sound like an idiot i apologize. Smile i know a lot about synths & music, not so much about writing code to translate SYS EX... but i'm a fast learner & i'm willing to try, so... whatever i can do to help facilitate this, i'm ready.
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jksuperstar



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If this becomes an extension to g2ools, we should move this thread over to the g2ools subforum. I may have access to a Nord Lead 2x through a friend. I'll have to see if he still has it.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

qfingers wrote:
Ok, I've been watching this thread since yesterday. I've orignally written a NordLead to Korg Triton Moss converter. So I have some of the code to handle the MIDI .syx files. It needs some work but it's at least a starting point. Plus, in g2ools, I wrote a DX7 to G2 converter. It was pretty easy to write. The complex portion was the parameter convertion. I posted a while ago that I wanted to create converters for several synth models. The NordLead is a good one to start with as it's a simple architecture. There are several ways to approach a converter for the various analog modeling synths available.

I haven't found the time and computer resources yet to run g2ools yet, but I know it's a wonderful program. I'm hoping for such a implementation Smile
Quote:
The "best" way is to only add the sections of the synth that are actually used in a patch. This maximizes the polyphony and minimizes the resource usage.
The next method with is how the DX7 to G2 converter works is to build a single G2 patch that contains all the blocks in a synth architecture and just adjust parameters. This method is probably the easiest.

I would suggest the second option, because of the options to tweak the patches using the variations. About resource usage, I created the mentioned patch to an expanded G2, in my case the G2X.
Quote:
With that said, I'm willing to do the converter but I would need help with the conversion of the parameters. I can do a one-to-one parameter convertion but that will not give good results. Someone with both units and is a little tech saavy to get the parameters values as close as possible will be needed.

The NordLead2 uses the same algorithms as the Nord Modular Classic, only the LFO's are continuous instead of different area's using a button.
Quote:
Wout, I've looked at your NordLead patch a while ago and I would need you to make a list of NordLead parameters to G2 patch parameters. Some of the NordLead parameters may require several G2 patch parameters to be adjusted. You need to provide me with a list. The envelopes and pitch parameters are pretty easy. It's the modulation parameters that are a little more difficult.

This list is rather easy, because it's already published in the Manual Smile
Quote:
So, with all that said, who's willing to provide the extra information I need? I will add the converter to g2ools when it's complete.

I am, of course! Maybe with a little help of my The Hague friends...

Something completely different...
For the Nord Modular Classic Jason Wiggens once created the Nord Morph Editor, in which two tweaks of the same patch can be loaded and the tool creates reading all deferences in parameters a morph, so gradually the player can slowly morph from the first to the second patch. Implemented into the variations there will be a lot of sound possibilities. Is this difficult to program?

see:
http://nm-archives.electro-music.com/010_NordModular/014_Interesting_Threads/Folder/RndMorph/RandomMorphing.htm

bbw wrote:
I am in Tempe.
i think we're still going to need to do what Wout suggested - beta-test, if you will, different combinations of G2X modules w/ a small set of 2X patches to obtain a G2X patch that actually sounds the most like it.

I would go for the complete NordLead template patch...
Quote:
i really do NOT think there will be a 1-1 mapping of G2X modules to 2X circuit. like i already said, there will need to be SOMETHING added in the patch to make the G2X OSC models more crunchy like the 2X. jason (SynthLord) agreed w/ this assessment.

Maybe your are listening to much to the original NordLead, which has different DA converters, much rawer then the Lead2(X) and the G2. But you can add everything you want to add!
Quote:
also, i don't think there should be any effects AT ALL in the patch, like the 2X - but i can see how someone down the road might want to add a delay to a lead sound, e.g., so maybe there should be fx modules built in to the patch, but bypassed so that if someone DID want to add something, they wouldn't have to add modules to EVERY SOUND.

FX isn't much a problem due to the FX area. It will only costs one voice.
Anyway, there is a lot one can due using the NL patches into the G2. Only think about the busses!

Wout
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
If this becomes an extension to g2ools, we should move this thread over to the g2ools subforum. I may have access to a Nord Lead 2x through a friend. I'll have to see if he still has it.

Right!

JAN!!!!

Wout
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:

JAN!!!!


Tell me, what is your wish Laughing

May I, instead, suggest starting a nicely focused new thread in the g2ools section ? With some links connecting everything together, hmm I love links.

This one seems a bit broader to me, I mean moving it would make it off topic immediately, not ?

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jan, we all relay on your wisdom...

Wout
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: Sysex patch dump format Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

qfingers...
This is a copy from the Manual.
Is this the kind of info you need?

Wout


Patch _Dump_Format.doc
 Description:
Replaced file 24-02-08

Download
 Filename:  Patch _Dump_Format.doc
 Filesize:  34 KB
 Downloaded:  141 Time(s)


Last edited by Wout Blommers on Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:13 am; edited 2 times in total
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And here is a pdf of it, for the non-ms-ies

(*)


patch_dump_format.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  patch_dump_format.pdf
 Filesize:  8.6 KB
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The red parameters are not in the patch itself, but controls which are global in the synth. Just not sure about the glide function...

Wout
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think what qfingers is after, are the actual parameter ranges. Like how many ms is a decay value of 17?. You would need to measure at no less than 10 different settings for each parameter. Same for modulation deviation, Filter cutoff, resonance etc. Basically a lot of work for a dedicated and enthusiastic Lead2 owner. Very Happy
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qfingers



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
I think what qfingers is after, are the actual parameter ranges. Like how many ms is a decay value of 17?. You would need to measure at no less than 10 different settings for each parameter. Same for modulation deviation, Filter cutoff, resonance etc. Basically a lot of work for a dedicated and enthusiastic Lead2 owner. Very Happy


Exactly... I'm willing to do the programming. But since I have no way to compare the G2 patches with the NordLead patches, someone else has to do it. Otherwise the results will be less then stellar. The last time I wrote a NordLead converter, I got alot of bad reviews of the results and no one was willing (or capable?) of giving me the information I needed to make it sound correct. Thankfully 3phase came along with the willingness to give me the information for the NM1 to G2 converter. There is no way it would be as good as it is without his help. The same is needed for this.

q
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep.
Well, basically it's the same as in the Nord Modular Classic, only the LFO are different, of course, due to the area's of the NM LFO's.

With what shall I measure, dear Lisa, dear Lisa,
With what shall I measure, dear Lisa, with what?

Wout
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
With what shall I measure, dear Lisa, dear Lisa,
With what shall I measure, dear Lisa, with what?


Modulate something that you can see in a wave editor, like a sine LFO to filter cutoff. Step through rate settings of 0,10,20 etc. Then in the wave editor you should be able to measure the period in ms, translate that to Hz with 1000/ms. Great news about all the envelope times being identical to the NM1.
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