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A DIY "no-MIDI" guitar controller for 1V/Octave synths
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Macaba



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For anti-aliasing purposes, yes. You want a low pass filter that rolls off at half the sampling frequency. In the real world, you would roll off earlier, to ensure the high frequencies are attenuated sufficently.

Good observation! Smile
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stefano



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:06 am    Post subject: Re: First success
Subject description: .. but a lot of work is still needed ..
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stefano wrote:
stefano wrote:


PRODUCTION OF SAMPLES AND PHOTOS IN PROGRESS.... Cool

Yes, sir, yesterday the Penfold F2V Guitar to Synth Interface started to convert guitar frequencies to voltage. I say "SOMEHOW" because I had to make a little mod (or bypass) to start it work. And I think that the device is not working in the way that Penfold designed it... but it WORKS.

I suspected that the signal path "stopped" at the gates of the quad switch 4016BE (I use a MC14016BCP for IC4). IC4 is driven at pin 13 (control pin) by a signal coming from pin 4 of IC11b, so I wondered what would have happened if pin 1 and pin 2 of IC4 would have always connected (like if the control al pin 13 was always enabled). The easiest way to do this is to **short** pin 1 and pin 2 of IC4. I did it and immediately the circuit started to convert frequencies to voltages.
The mini sound lab accepted the 1V/Octave scale produced by Penfold P2V.
I played an A (5th guitar string), tuned the osc-1 Minisoundlab and VR2 (shift control). Then I played the same string at the 12th fret (1octave up) and I used the VR3 (gain control) to tune the sound from the oscillator.

I didn't win the war, but I think at least a good battle! I'm on my way to completely debug this circuit because I don't actually like this bypass Twisted Evil .
Next step I'd like to do with an oscilloscope (any advice accepted Very Happy ):
- controlling the signal at (IC11 pin 4) = (IC4 pin 13) (after generation of quad switch control signal)
- controlling the signal at IC10 pin 6 (before generation of quad switch control signal)

Stay tuned



Here is a photo of the loaded PCB.

At the moment I'm trying to discover if the quadswitch MC14016BCP is damaged.

Another issue could be the power supply. I discovered that I have a positive supply of exactly +12 V and a negative supply of - 10.5 V . Do you think this could be a problem for the biasing of the components ?

Bye


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Last edited by stefano on Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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bugbrand



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I reckon I'm going to make one up shortly too --- Stefano, that's the PCB straight from the project document, right?

All the parts look pretty standard which is good -- reckon I'd use an SSM2210 instead of CA3046 though..

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
what about the MS20 interface? (just a guess)


Indeed Very Happy

The P-V converter on the MS-20 is what makes this synth so good. I've got the schematic if you need it. (although it isn't hard to find on the net). You can drive both the Soundlab and the SN7 voice from Hz/oct. So no more searching for tempco's? Wink

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stefano



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
fonik wrote:
what about the MS20 interface? (just a guess)


Indeed Very Happy

The P-V converter on the MS-20 is what makes this synth so good. I've got the schematic if you need it. (although it isn't hard to find on the net). You can drive both the Soundlab and the SN7 voice from Hz/oct. So no more searching for tempco's? Wink



Why not. Let's have a look at the schematic. Can you post it (otherwise, can you post the link?)
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bugbrand



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bugbrand wrote:
I reckon I'm going to make one up shortly too --- Stefano, that's the PCB straight from the project document, right?

All the parts look pretty standard which is good -- reckon I'd use an SSM2210 instead of CA3046 though..


Duh, silly-bugs -- of course I then realised that the CA3046 has a pretty different pin-out (14 pin DIL vs 8 pin for starters...)

BUT! Had a closer look and its very easy to mod things for SSM2210 (or LM394) - I'll try it out and then post an image if its of use to anyone..

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

stefano wrote:

Why not. Let's have a look at the schematic. Can you post it (otherwise, can you post the link?)


Okay- I'll dig it out, but you'll have to hold your horses until the weekend- I've got to dig my way out of a minefield right now Shocked Very Happy

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Found it. Though it may be a bit pixelated Confused


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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
You can drive both the Soundlab and the SN7 voice from Hz/oct

How is this possible? Do you need a converter or something? I have a Korg X-911 guitar synth and I thought it'd be cool to hook up to my Sound Lab (still needs 1v/oct mod) or my yamaha, for a few extra voices and modulations.
I also saw an article on modding the Univox K1/Minikorg for external cv inputs and gate. End result being Hz/V. So I thought about doing that down the line. But, It'd be cool to use my other synths.

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bugbrand



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Stefano - I got my one working today ---->> after a while though..!..


There's one big error in the project that could cause confusion - in the parts list, IC11 is listed as a 4011 but in the schematic its shown and listed as a 4001 -- !!! --- changing over from a 4011 to a 4001 got things working.


So, its working and tracking a bit, but at the moment its really very unstable - if you try re-triggering notes they'll often repitch themselves. The tuning ain't good at the moment.. HoHum. Maybe I'll try to get a ca3046 'cos I'm currently using an SSM2210 (with suitable cludges)


Anyways, just wondered if you'd identified that problem before...

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wild Zebra wrote:
Quote:
You can drive both the Soundlab and the SN7 voice from Hz/oct

How is this possible?


Laughing

oh dear, another v-un-v guff! Laughing

I meant Hz/v Very Happy

edit; the oscillator frequency is controlled by a linear pot, therefore the control must be a linear response, hence Hz/volt Smile

But yes- the Korg stuff (mostly) is driven by Hz/v- including the MS-20

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StephenGiles



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mmmm, no fundamental extractor, I can't see much possibilty of good stable tracking! Rolling Eyes
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bugbrand



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

StephenGiles wrote:
Mmmm, no fundamental extractor, I can't see much possibilty of good stable tracking! :roll:


To which do you refer? The penfold design or the MS20 design??

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StephenGiles



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Both.
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Fernando



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is a V/oct to V/Hz converter that works:
http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/schematics/
scroll downt to "V/oct to Hz/V converter" or
http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/schematics/oct2hz.pdf



v-un-v wrote:
fonik wrote:
what about the MS20 interface? (just a guess)


Indeed :D

The P-V converter on the MS-20 is what makes this synth so good. I've got the schematic if you need it. (although it isn't hard to find on the net). You can drive both the Soundlab and the SN7 voice from Hz/oct. So no more searching for tempco's? ;)
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stefano



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, it was the eighth message of this post (see previous page of this post, it was a message of mine). Anyway there are other errors (E), the article must have been written in a hurry ! For instance:
Evil or Very Mad E1) - there is listed in the schema of fig.2, for IC7 a CA4046 instead of the proper CA3040 (correct)
Evil or Very Mad E2) - IC2,IC5,IC9 in fig. 2 are CA3140, but in the part list (correct) IC2,IC9,IC10 are CA3140
Rolling Eyes E3) - spare terminals of pots VR3 and VR5, according to the schematic should be connected respectively to pads 'F' and 'B' (though, I wonder if this is relevant)

Bye


bugbrand wrote:
Hey Stefano - I got my one working today ---->> after a while though..!..

There's one big error in the project that could cause confusion - in the parts list, IC11 is listed as a 4011 but in the schematic its shown and listed as a 4001 -- !!! --- changing over from a 4011 to a 4001 got things working.


So, its working and tracking a bit, but at the moment its really very unstable - if you try re-triggering notes they'll often repitch themselves. The tuning ain't good at the moment.. HoHum. Maybe I'll try to get a ca3046 'cos I'm currently using an SSM2210 (with suitable cludges)


Anyways, just wondered if you'd identified that problem before...
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bugbrand



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah,,,, I really oughta learn to read through everything (..guess teachers were right..)


Question on the MS20 design ---

VR6 -> looks like it needs to be a triple pot ? do such things exist? never heard of them....

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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fernando wrote:
Here is a V/oct to V/Hz converter that works:
http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/schematics/
scroll downt to "V/oct to Hz/V converter" or
http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/schematics/oct2hz.pdf

oh, and what about a Hz/V to V/oct converter? just in case i wanted try myself on the MS20 interface?

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blue hell
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bugbrand wrote:
VR6 -> looks like it needs to be a triple pot ? do such things exist? never heard of them....


Ah, in the old days they made such beautiful stuff Very Happy

But see : http://www.potentiometer.com/ , you can still have 'm - http://www.potentiometer.com/series308.cfm?session_num=2007030107075046 to directly go to a triple pot, or stackable actually.

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Fernando



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oops, sorry, you are right we need the inverse conversion =:s

The MS20 was a very interesting interface

fonik wrote:
Fernando wrote:
Here is a V/oct to V/Hz converter that works:
http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/schematics/
scroll downt to "V/oct to Hz/V converter" or
http://rubidium.dyndns.org/~magnus/synths/schematics/oct2hz.pdf

oh, and what about a Hz/V to V/oct converter? just in case i wanted try myself on the MS20 interface?
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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
oh, and what about a Hz/V to V/oct converter? just in case i wanted try myself on the MS20 interface?


yep this is what I meant fonik. I want to go out of the X-911 (Hz/V) into a V/oct. Sorry I kinda jumped in here. It's nice to see some progress on this project though. The X-911 tracks pretty well. I don't use it as much as I should. It gets alittle squirrly from time to time. It's all about finding the right picking strength.

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StephenGiles



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The EH Guitar Synthesiser included a decent fundamental extractor which produced a sine wave from any input. As a result it tracked single notes from an electric guitar perfectly. Unfortunately it used 2 x CA3094, but they are still available at Smallbear.
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Fernando



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Harry Bissell told me that the Shin-Ei Octave's input section was great to condition a guitar signal for fundamental extraction.

This comment was around the PV1, a pitch to voltage converter by Harry based on a design by Bob Moog/Big Briar Etherwave Pitch to Voltage Converter. The PCB was sold by EFM some years ago (2000) as "PV1"
I'd like to post the schematic but I should ask Harry permission first, I guess...

Shin-Ei schematic


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StephenGiles



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/StephenGiles/EH_sine.gif

Wink Wink Wink
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Fernando



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yummy

StephenGiles wrote:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/StephenGiles/EH_sine.gif

:wink: :wink: :wink:
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