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 Forum index » Discussion » Composition
Is there a difference between a Composer and a pop musician?
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stanley Pain wrote:

i like to balance both approaches. i think you're in danger of losing touch with an audience if you become too technically indulgent.


I agree, but "becoming too technologically indulgent" isn't limited to electronic music. It affects guitar solos just as much as it does -say- IDM.

Quote:
i'm not against using presets at all. after all, few of us would criticise Heifitz or Rostropovich for not making their own violin or 'cello respectively. i couldn't imagine anyone seriously criticising Hendrix because he used an "out of the box" guitar... (it's worth comparing Hendrix to Brian May at this point...)


I'm not realy against presets as such, but I do think the the analogy is skewed. Hendrix, regardless of wether or not he modified his instruments, tried to push the instrument to it's limits or at least took it further then it had gone before. In a way he reinterperted it, the same can be said about many musicians. i don't realy care that much wether the instrument in question is "a Nord Lead 1" or is "the Nord lead 1's 43rd preset", at least not on that level.

However, Hendrix, on stage, was playing his instrument as whe saw it, he wasn't presenting a recording of what he had composed and saved earlier that week. Hendrix, most importantly, was a exelent live musician and realtime instrumentalist.

Quote:
i'm unashamedly using a lot of Nord presets (albeit layered...) on my album because, to be frank, they're beautiful. i'm still working on my ability to programme pads that are satisfying to my ears. until then i'm drawing on the expertise of programmers far better than me, who have provided us with beautiful instruments it would be almost criminal not to share.


That's a good point. I, personally, don't use presets. Not because I don't think they are -at times- beautifull or because I don't agree there are many programers much better then I am but because I don't think there is a programer who understands my ideas about what I like and want as closely as I do myself. You are very lucky to have found those presets then; congratulations.

Quote:
Fake uses Ableton for his live sets, albeit with plugins he's programmed himself. i see nothing wrong with that at all.


Neither do I. i didn't say there was anything wrong with it, just that I don't considder what I saw in those few videos a "live performance", I'd call it a "presentation of material" or perhaps a "tape concert".

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i agree with everything your saying here. My point was that every time i have played a liveset, which is not for some years now, i have been doing just that both hands going constantly, brain running faster than it probably does at any other point in my life and fingers trying to keep up, meanwhile the legs are trying to beat a whole through the floor (not intentionally you understand) and sweat pouring like I am on trial for a very serious crime I did commit.

It is this what makes a liveset, live and exciting for the audience and the performer.

My point was really there is no way i could have time to code a sound or start trimming a sample up and normalizing, i was always too busy working dials on the gear and modifying the patterns in real time a la hi-hats mentioned earlier, not to mention planning the next phase of the set. Furthermore presumably such an endeavor would require awesome monitors in a live situation which i have never had the privilege of.

But perhaps my point is skewed; just cos i would not have time do so, doesn't really mean that you or anyone else would perhaps not have time to do this. So apologies.

I think perhaps with regards to audiences you may be right, since the dance music scene has grown up, so to speak, the audiences have become much less forgiving and many of them a lot less interested in what is making the music and more about the end result (and whether or not it suits their "vibe") . Personally i love to see a live set and am the first stupid fool going up and talking to the performer after the set for tips and insight into how they did it, what they are using etc etc. But i think there are many people dancing who perhaps wouldn't even realise it was live and probably wouldn't care.

With regard to the preset point Stanley raised. I agree there is nothing wrong with presets but unfortunately I seem to have developed an unhealthy allergy to them, regardless of how well they may sound. Rolling Eyes

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, agreed.

Funny note; even trimming samples can be done live and on the fly. I read somewhere that Anthony Rother plays (or played) with two Akai S612's. This kinda makes sense. Those have only one slot for one sample, they can sample, then playback nearly instantaniously and the start and loop points have hardware sliders. i imagine that with some practice that could be quite deadly.

The "problem" as I see it isn't just with audiences that may at times expected mastered CD quality in sound and musicians playing it safe. The S612 is a very unique (if huge and very old) machine to have those features. Most samplers and indeed sequencers aren't build to be played in realtime at all. There are so many otherwise decent sequencers that can't even go from pattern write to pattern choose without hitting "stop".... In many cases it's like the whole industry asumes nobody wants to do that, doesn't develop devices that can and so people don't.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds like a nifty sampler, i have always found something strangely appealing about the big clunky old samplers anyway.

Yes i know what u mean, even equipment apparently designed for live use has limited functions in this respect. and Hence the "how do u perform live, maintain a high sound quality, fluidity, adaptability and liveness to your electronic music" being me and my music making friends favorite discussions with no real answer and solutions inevitably being just a set of compromises.

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I completely agree. Still; compromises can be negotiated. Practice and setting priorities go a long way.

As always I can only talk for myself but for me right now compromises mean heavy quantisation (in time and pitch, done in realtime) and practice will mean a hour a day for the next month, preferably more.

I set my priorities to be mainly writing the music live and doing the sound design at home. In case you're interested; this was my last atempt, this was recorded just hours after finishing the first prototype sequencer that was realy playable (it's been improved since then). Sadly, the best bit was missing; I accidentally deleted the whole pattern two times and had to get it back up, reinputting all rithems and all melodies in seconds... That worked (which I think is a very good sign) but I still thought it wise to eliminate the double usage of a button that led to accidental deletion of the whole memory by loading a empty pattern :¬).

http://virb.com/kassen/videos/6898

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This sounds interesting, look forward to giving it a listen when i get home.
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