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Jim Patchell's Control Voltage Splitter
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diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

just layed out and built a very rough pnp board today
will see how it goes in testing
may redo it later for euro size
just a little too wide at the moment
haha first test fail put a socket in backward and consequently
also the tl074 , cracked the bastard in half Laughing

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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok working sort of
definitely getting waves blending on both outputs [audio rate]
and they look opposite ok but
i think i have an error in my layout perhaps
cant get any adjustment out of the trim at either end its like its not even there.
+5.9v to -5.9v shows the same at both of the outputs depending on where the pot is
the CV pot does have an effect on the output at least , an LFO into it
is interesting
supply is +15/-15 so tried 301K for the 220k maybe higher needed?
also didnt have 47K for the trimmer so used a 100k multiturn instead

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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorted it ,missed a trace Embarassed
working good now
the trimmer adjustment went well
301K seems good for 15 volt supplies
no time left tonight will try to post something tomorrow

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PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good to hear it's working diablojoy! looking forward to hear your
experiences with it. Razz

About the 220K resistor, it sets the wipe range of the pot. With the range I
choose you should be able to wipe between the 2 inputs. (that is with
10Vpp signals) So, if you can't do a full wipe you would have to decrease
it. And if I remember correctly then if the resister is too small you can
wipe further and end up with just the top or bottom half of one signal
(offset and half the amplitude), but you would have to check it on a scope
to be sure. Could be a feature but I didn't want it. You should also get the
same effect by using a CV with a larger amplitude than the input signals.
(which I might try again so I know for sure what it does).

In the meantime I did another test with a triangle and square wave but
this time the square is shifted 90° compared to the other test. (I like how
it looks at 0V Laughing ) This is actually what I wanted to try, but it's not what
my LFO gave me. So I used a comparator now to convert a triangle into
the square I wanted.

and I also posted the layout I used to build it on perf.


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asterisk



Joined: Sep 17, 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this would be a good circuit to make a PCB for.
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

interesting outputs if a higher freq is used into the cv input compared to the normal inputs
nice perfboard layout of yours by the way
the board i drew up has 3 board mounted pots [ i added attenuators on both the normal inputs ] for more variation
so i can try out the bigger cv than input wave form idea
wasnt concentrating on that last night and ran out of time
was thinking an attenuvertor on the cv input might be good
to try out as well
I have to do the layout again anyway need to get it under 44mm wide
dual layer would make it easy to lay out but harder for self etching
A triple or quad panel of these would be good and well worth having
i think
would you consider doing a board run of your final design in the future?
if enough interest develops of course.

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emdot_ambient



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vladosh wrote:
Here's my layout Smile

thumb up

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diablojoy wrote:
the board i drew up has 3 board mounted pots [I added attenuators
on both the normal inputs ] for more variation so i can try out the bigger cv than
input wave form idea. wasnt concentrating on that last night and ran out of time
was thinking an attenuator on the cv input might be good to try out as well.

I tought about adding some pots, but the synth I'm using it for is
allready getting out of hand (I'll probably have to change my initial idea
for it) so didn't want to add even more pots. But it's definitely a usefull
addition. Smile

Quote:
I have to do the layout again anyway need to get it under 44mm wide
dual layer would make it easy to lay out but harder for self etching A triple
or quad panel of these would be good and well worth having i think would you
consider doing a board run of your final design in thefuture? if enough
interest develops of course.

yes, I am considering it. I never had any PCB's manufactured before but
I think I found a good place to let them made and if my calculations are
correct then a standard PCB (single layer, solder mask, silk screen) of
my design would be around €5,- (and that's for an order of 10 pieces it
get's cheaper for more). Not sure if you mean my board or your new layout btw.
But I might order a couple of my design, even if there is no interest, just for myself.

There a few things I might want to change though. I'm gonna make the
soldering pads a bit larger, and maybe make the traces bigger or/and
add a ground plane. The power input is usefull for me, but I could probably
add an option for different connectors, same thing goes for the jacks.
And the trimpot will have some extra pads to use a multitrim.

I could make a completely new layout because if it's not for perfboard I
don't have to use a 0.1" grid and I might get it a bit smaller. On the other
hand, this design is allready tested, very easy to self etch (and possible to
build on perf) and because I want to have the connectors on the board I
probably won't get it very much smaller anyway. Of course you're free to install the
connectors or use wires, that's why I allready added some extra mounting holes (which
are useless with the jacks installed) and the dotted line in case you want to make
it a bit smaller.

So I'll probably just improve my design a bit and see of I can get a testrun of boards
made. And if there's any interest I can get more made or just make the files
available and let someone else do it since I don't have any experience with this. thinking

edit, because of the spacing between the components of my current design I could also
add part numbers next to it.

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Last edited by PHOBoS on Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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asterisk



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

if you get some boards made, count me in for one.
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it's your design so i figure its up to you
I thought only to do a layout for myself primarily as well
but would happily send you the files if you wanted them , doing a quick layout is not much work for me and gives me a distraction while waiting for my sympleseq parts to come in . if what i do can be shared all the better. this is purely a hobby for me
my thoughts with regards to board design were to bring the board dimensions under 44mm in width for people who work in RU dimensions
with board mounted pots to make building simple and easy.
even better if the jacks were also board mounted
if it can be panelled in a euro format than a lot more people might be interested my 2 cents worth anyway

Quote:
And the trimpot will have some extra pads to use a multitrim.

a very good idea i used a side adjust 15 turn and its still a bit touchy.

also may try lowering that 301K after looking at it again last night i dont quite get the full adjustment if the inputs are not attenuated .
perhaps a gain of 0.5 ... 240K for 15v supply

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
it's your design so i figure its up to you
I thought only to do a layout for myself primarily as well
but would happily send you the files if you wanted them , doing a quick layout is not much work for me and gives me a distraction while waiting for my sympleseq parts to come in . if what i do can be shared all the better. this is purely a hobby for me

great, it's just a hobby for me too and I love to share designs. And if
anyone want to make boards for it available, that's awesome. once you
get your design done. and I got mine I can start a thread to see if there is
some interest and then figure out the rest.

Quote:
my thoughts with regards to board design were to bring the board dimensions under 44mm in width for people who work in RU dimensions
with board mounted pots to make building simple and easy.
even better if the jacks were also board mounted
if it can be panelled in a euro format than a lot more people might be interested my 2 cents worth anyway.

Sounds good, I think it will indeed be interesting for more people than my design. thumleft

Quote:
..,I used a side adjust 15 turn and its still a bit touchy.
also may try lowering that 301K after looking at it again last night i dont quite get the full adjustment if the inputs are not attenuated .
perhaps a gain of 0.5 ... 240K for 15v supply

Could be a bit touchy because you used a 100K, allthough with a multiturn
it should still be less than a normal 47K. I didn''t measure the voltage with
a meter just looked on the scope, so I might not have tuned mine very
precise yet.
Do you get the full range with the CV ? else you might want to consider
increasing the 120K resistor which will give both the pot and the CV a
larger range. (maybe I'm gonna increase it myself to 130K too)

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vladosh



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a few scope shots done with PC scope ,but only on one of the outputs just so i be sure it's working right , the last one is triangle with sine i think but that triangle is a bit quiet so this is how it turned out , the odd one is with different slightly detuned vco's


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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vladosh wrote
Quote:
the odd one is with different slightly detuned vco's

yes that looks good
for even more mayhem try slightly detuned one or two octaves apart
but the kicker would be then to instead of a straight cv into the cv input
an even higher freq wave form is used
chops it to pieces ... orsm weird complex wave forms at the outputs Smile

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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PHOBos wrote
Quote:
great, it's just a hobby for me too and I love to share designs. And if
anyone want to make boards for it available, that's awesome. once you
get your design done. and I got mine I can start a thread to see if there is
some interest and then figure out the rest.

cool i will continue on with that in mind.

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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PHOBos see what you think
An extended version

Added attenuvertors to all inputs instead of just attenuators
and another ideal diode cct taken from the outputs [ I had an extra opamp to use up ]
I will prototype this one to make sure it works.
4 x knobs
7 x jacks

see attached schematic


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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

o wow,. Very Happy
not really sure what those attenuvertors do. If I ignore the pot on the
non-inverting input (GND it) I see it's an inverting amp with adjustable
gain. with the pot wired to a fixed voltage it would give some offset, but
what does it do now ? (maybe I'll just need to breadboard it)

I am curious how the outputs of the 3rd ideal diode cct look compared
to the inputs. Nice idea to use the spare opamp like this. Maybe you could
add some switches to patch it to different points in the circuit. Or if you use
jacks with switch contacts you could use it as a standalone circuit, but
attached like you drawn now if you don't plug anything in.

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asterisk



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the updated circuit looks really great!

what do the additional 2 diode outputs do? is it max/min outputs or something?

attenuverter pots are used to attenuate and/or invert an incoming CV or audio signal. very helpful to have them as part of any circuit so you dont have to do it elsewhere (using attenuators and inverters) before sending signals into the circuit. i think they would be particularly useful in this circuit.

im hoping to breadboard this circuit soon. ill post results if i get it working.
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
what do the additional 2 diode outputs do? is it max/min outputs or something?

In theory should be only the positive voltages on one output
and only the negative voltages on the other output with the the break point set at 0v
more use perhaps in terms of providing odd control voltages but could also be waves with a positive or negative offset .
my thought with using the attenuvertors was simply to provide far more variation with only a little added expense.


Quote:
I am curious how the outputs of the 3rd ideal diode cct look compared
to the inputs. Nice idea to use the spare opamp like this. Maybe you could
add some switches to patch it to different points in the circuit.



I am curious also, should be interesting.
I like the idea of switching what is sent to the inverting input of that opamp
there are a few points that might be nice.

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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Maybe you could
add some switches to patch it to different points in the circuit.


OK Smile

now at
12 opamps- 3 x tl074
4 pots
3 switches
3 input jacks
5 output jacks
dont think i will take it any further than this.
All switches down = original J. Patchell circuit but with attenuvertors
sw1 - up is same but with attenuverted cv break point and offset [note inverted to normal ... opamp U1c ]
sw2 up is attenuverted sig1 with half of normal breakpoint modified signal from original wave wiper sig1 and sig2 then on to be further modified by opamp U2c
sw3 up is the same but the other half
opamp U1d provides an inverted output of the full signal from U2c
perhaps someone can suggest a better use for U1d ?

edit : just so people know the circuit below has yet to be tested and will probably need numerous changes


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asterisk



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow, thats great!
itd be nice to have a PCB of this, its starting to get too complicated for a breadboard
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

do you mean a pnp self etch board ?
yes it is getting a little complex for me too
I must admit to a massive dislike of breadboarding though
and havent done any for this
usually i just go straight from the schematic, layout and etch a board
test and then see what needs fixing, then do it all again
not the most efficient methodolgy I know but seems to be the way that suits me best

So I have to build a prototype first and test it
that is what i have started to draw up now.
and there will inevitably be some changes,
there will in the end be some form of board for this
but thats a couple of weeks away at least.

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asterisk



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks diablo. let us know how your tests go.
id be happy with a self-etch board or a standard PCB run.
anyways, im certainly interested in this circuit.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This got mentioned in the chat today, and decided to try and make a software version of the WaveWiper. I'm not sure I made exactly the same thing ... but it turned out to be quite a nice wave shaper Cool

The image below is a triangle and a square wave on inputs 1 and 2, with a sine wave on the CV / Break input. Viewing outputs 1 and 2.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice seems a little more ideal perhaps
I really should relook into this got distracted by numerous other bright shiny things. Embarassed
maybe I could do a proper board now

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diablojoy wrote:
nice seems a little more ideal perhaps
I really should relook into this got distracted by numerous other bright shiny things. Embarassed
maybe I could do a proper board now


I'd certainly be interested in one.....
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