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Randaleem
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 456 Location: Northern CA, USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject:
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| Nosferatu wrote: | | Earlier in the thread some sugested that TZ of Bruce (Modcan) used the EN design, but this picture suggest something else perhaps? |
Not necessarily. The ZO is made up of three primary boards, and when you study the published docs, the complexity is reduced to its parts.
Things are mentioned in the sales text like the addition/change to a 4 quadrant multiplier (where the basic VCA is in the EN 129 circuit). The core board, which has the trims for the core wavefom, is in the middle of this stack of three and cannot be seen in pics of assembled units. This info comes from the text of the "ZO testing procedure 2.2" document, which is labeled as Aug7, 2008! (so that time reversal switch on the ZO must really work! ) FWIW, The bottom board handles the waveshaping circuitry. The top board is identified as the Modulation/power board.
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What an awful lot of components in his TZ!! No wonder its expensive!
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How true!
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Perhaps he uses a variation of Don Tillmans TZ design? (it has four phases). |
While I can't say for sure which circuit is used in the Cyndustiries ZO, I don't believe it is the Tillman design. Tillman's design is a truncated triangle core, which he calls a "trapezoid" core. The ZO operating manual by Mark Barton says on p.4 "The ZO uses a triangle core. All other waveforms are derived from that." Page two says "The apex of the triangle..." which does not suggest the Tillman trapezoid?
Finally, also on page 2 it is mentioned that you are trimming the "Low frequency symmetry..."(triangle). Perhaps this suggests the use of a doubled freq quad osc core, as this is one of the three principal means to quadrature oscillator design?
Regards,
Randal |
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Nosferatu

Joined: Jul 27, 2007 Posts: 234 Location: Planet Rock.
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject:
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del Last edited by Nosferatu on Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Randaleem
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 456 Location: Northern CA, USA
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject:
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| Nosferatu wrote: | >you study the published docs,
What docs? i cant find any?
I dont even find the sales tex? Where?
Well, it seams that you have access to all docs, some how?
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Hi Nosferatu,
All that I mentioned is in the public record. I think they all came from here. http://www.cyndustries.com/modules_zero-osc.cfm
Basically I just searched online under "Zeroscillator" and have read everything I can find.
There is also a Cyndustries YahooGroup, with a "files" section that may prove fruitful. (I think everything I mentioned came from one or the other of these two locations.)
| Randaleem wrote: |
Tillman's design is a truncated triangle core, which he calls a "trapezoid" core. |
| Nosferatu wrote: |
Hmm, you meant chopped tri shape?
I don't see any chopping of the waves in the schemo?
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Look here: http://www.till.com/articles/QuadTrapVCO/discussion.html
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Well, you can go in the other direction with sub triangles
instead of frequency multiplying. You don't even need frequency multiplying or division, there are other means to get quadrature to.
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Yes. Three basic choices: Cross coupled feedback, waveform slice-and-dice, and dual freq combination.
Kind regards,
Randal |
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Nosferatu

Joined: Jul 27, 2007 Posts: 234 Location: Planet Rock.
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:23 am Post subject:
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del Last edited by Nosferatu on Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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andrewF

Joined: Dec 29, 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: australia
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:12 am Post subject:
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I have started building Mr Tillman's quadVCO.
On the schematic, 2 state outputs come from the comparators, which are described as 2 'free square waves' for waveshaping...etc'
My 1st thought was just to unity-buffer (is that a verb?...it is now) them and have some squarewave outputs.
but i know the benefits of asking first, anybody got some other ideas?? |
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andrewF

Joined: Dec 29, 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: australia
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:20 am Post subject:
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this is one of those modules that makes you walk in circles whilst pointing upwards.
i found it a bit hard to build due to unfamiliar chips, unusual resistor values and 6 different voltages required (+/-15, +/-8, +/-5) but it works and it works very well...very different sound and response to inputs compared to the EN thru zero VCO.
You can see in the 'scope shots some jitter/noise on the waves. Mr Tillman states you should be careful with routing connections and he is quite correct. I found rerouting some wires greatly reduced noise, but more to do.
Haven't done anything with the surplus square waves yet, thought I'd just get it to work 1st.
Thanks D.Tillman for sharing such a great circuit.
There are trimmers to set up the waveshapes, but i won't bother with doing that until this is installed in my modular - need to stop soldering and start panel-building.
with LFO input,
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v-un-v
Janitor


Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 8932 Location: Birmingham, England, UK
Audio files: 11
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:49 am Post subject:
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Groovy!
But what does it sound like  _________________ ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN. |
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andrewF

Joined: Dec 29, 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: australia
Audio files: 4
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janvanvolt

Joined: Nov 24, 2005 Posts: 285 Location: Mainz, Germany
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 3:49 pm Post subject:
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| Randaleem wrote: | At least not the EN-based TZVCO PCB that I've been working on. You can expect it to be offered and available in September.
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Hi,
any news on the TZVCO ? I am really interested in one pcb, maybe two ... |
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Peake

Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject:
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| andrewF wrote: | not set up for handling audio on my pooter so its a wma file
30s of noise - using the SN-Voice to drive the tillman QVCO.
no filtering or fx, QVCO output direct into audio Cd burner. |
Thanks for the audio (and congrats on building it!).
Lovely chaotic/turbulent tone at 15 seconds! |
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Randaleem
Joined: May 17, 2007 Posts: 456 Location: Northern CA, USA
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:27 am Post subject:
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| unit-sound wrote: | | Randaleem wrote: | the EN-based TZVCO PCB that I've been working on. You can expect it to be offered and available in September.
| Hi,any news on the TZVCO ? I am really interested in one pcb, maybe two ... |
Hi Unit-sound,
Still hope to have it out by months end, as in the post you quoted. I'm working on a LOT of modules right now!
Kind regards,
Randal |
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janvanvolt

Joined: Nov 24, 2005 Posts: 285 Location: Mainz, Germany
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:47 am Post subject:
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Same here, working on ~ 16 projects depending on parts availability and my order temper.
currently i am working part time on the klee design frontpanel. |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005 Posts: 875 Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 5
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject:
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| Randaleem wrote: | | unit-sound wrote: | | Randaleem wrote: | the EN-based TZVCO PCB that I've been working on. You can expect it to be offered and available in September.
| Hi,any news on the TZVCO ? I am really interested in one pcb, maybe two ... |
Hi Unit-sound,
Still hope to have it out by months end, as in the post you quoted. I'm working on a LOT of modules right now!
Kind regards,
Randal |
Please don't hurry with the TZO.
Put please the weight onto the Quality and not to the release date. |
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softfin

Joined: Oct 11, 2006 Posts: 271 Location: Far in the north
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:16 am Post subject:
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| Randaleem: I'd be in for 4 TZVCO boards. |
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synthnut
Joined: Aug 15, 2007 Posts: 9 Location: San Jose California
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:58 am Post subject:
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| Hi, You can put me down for 4 TZVCO boards also! |
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prophei

Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 234 Location: san francisco, ca
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:16 am Post subject:
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| i would like a minimum of 2 boards, maybe 4 =] |
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mono-poly

Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 937 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject:
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| 4! |
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Peake

Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject:
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| 4! Perhaps 6, to try the Yammy FM algos in analog. |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject:
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| Peake wrote: | | 4! Perhaps 6, to try the Yammy FM algos in analog. |
Do you think the design is stable and accurate enough for that?
Ian |
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janvanvolt

Joined: Nov 24, 2005 Posts: 285 Location: Mainz, Germany
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:27 pm Post subject:
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| Okay, count me in for 2 additional (so that makes a total of 4) |
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Peake

Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject:
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| frijitz wrote: | | Peake wrote: | | 4! Perhaps 6, to try the Yammy FM algos in analog. |
Do you think the design is stable and accurate enough for that?
Ian |
I'm fully willing to run those risks and find out what happens  |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject:
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| Peake wrote: | I'm fully willing to run those risks and find out what happens  |
Well, I'm sure you will get some really cool sounds no matter what. We'll all be looking forward to your results
Ian |
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Peake

Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3
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RF

Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1502 Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28
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Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:12 am Post subject:
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Jeeze -
I wish if I understood anything from those links, Peake.
I must have skipped class the day we covered that....
bruce |
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blue hell
Site Admin

Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24499 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 298
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