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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Jim Patchell's Vocal Filter
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ryktnk wrote:
That's a great design for your panel, very cool

Do you mind me asking who made it ?
Is it not Schaeffer ?

no. it's a small company here in my region. it is a metalphoto process. they accept even PDFs... next time i will have to ask them about drilling the holes for me.

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matthias
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it's almost done!

i finished all the wiring, powered it up and it worked (in general). the only thing i know it doesn't work is one mixer control. will have to fix it.

i tested one shaper and it works fine. however i will have to learn more about the functionality before testing it. i simply don't know exactly how it SHOULD work. the first thing i learned while looking at the scope was, that the knobs of the shaper (break points, gain, offset) are in default setting at 12 o'clock, not ccw.

some blurry pix:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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matthias
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doctorvague



Joined: Mar 14, 2007
Posts: 281
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

WOW!!
That is just gorgeous, Fonik.
A work of art, no one would suspect it's DIY looking at it.

Cheers
Phil

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lexvortex



Joined: May 14, 2008
Posts: 155
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Nice!! I would love to hear what it sounds like Very Happy

Cheers,
Dave
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markusw



Joined: Jun 16, 2007
Posts: 23
Location: Vienna/Austria

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool Wow, looks very impressive! Also the frontplate looks fantastic!

Quote:
no. it's a small company here in my region. it is a metalphoto process. they accept even PDFs.


Do you mind telling us which company it is and what they charged you for the panel?

Recently, I used Alucorex from Bungard to do the faceplates for a guitar amp. Although it works nicely I'm looking for alternatives. The only company I found so far that sells Alucorex in 19" is Reichelt. You have to buy a roughly 19" by 19" sheet though. A bit large if you just need two pieces of 3x19".

Thanks a lot in advance!

Peace,

Markus
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it's http://www.gravoprintec.de/

for one single panel i payed 100.-EUR without drilling Shocked

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markusw



Joined: Jun 16, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
it's http://www.gravoprintec.de/

for one single panel i payed 100.-EUR without drilling Shocked


Shocked
Thanks a lot for your answer!
Hm, I think I'll stick to Alucorex. It's still cheaper..... Wink

Does anyone know of a company that does custom Alucorex frontplates in 19". Might be cheaper than metalphoto....

Peace,

Markus
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i took a 2nd look at the filter tonight. i recognized that everything works fine, as expected. just had to set the trimmers. and to understand the shapers. they are great. it has been a good idea to spend them an output socket each, so i could use them for creating new LFO waveforms - thank you andrewF for that suggestion.

here is a short sample. i used the klee to control the VCO and and the vocal filter. since i used the klee's gate and trigger signals as well, you can hear some 'pops'.


VocalFilter.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  VocalFilter.mp3
 Filesize:  464.19 KB
 Downloaded:  1281 Time(s)


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matthias
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cool,could u post an steady sound demo with smooth knob sweeping when u have time Matt?
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numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
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Location: Austin, TX
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, sounds great!

fonik wrote:
i took a 2nd look at the filter tonight. i recognized that everything works fine, as expected. just had to set the trimmers. and to understand the shapers. they are great. it has been a good idea to spend them an output socket each, so i could use them for creating new LFO waveforms - thank you andrewF for that suggestion.

here is a short sample. i used the klee to control the VCO and and the vocal filter. since i used the klee's gate and trigger signals as well, you can hear some 'pops'.
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ach_gott



Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 79
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
here is a short sample. i used the klee to control the VCO and and the vocal filter. since i used the klee's gate and trigger signals as well, you can hear some 'pops'.


Add a couple more voices and maybe a beat and I could listen to that for ages. I love it!
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knarleybass



Joined: Mar 22, 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I love it!!!
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so i did a short 'remix' of this arpeggio vocal filter (don't take this seriously)

[EDIT: upload didn't work - filed cut/damaged so i embedded it]


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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here are two short samples of the actual filters, one for BP, one for LP.
just one filter, freq modulated by slow LFO (no CVshaper), with no resonance, some resonance and more resonance.

more musical samples soon.


JPVF_BPsweep.mp3
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 Filename:  JPVF_BPsweep.mp3
 Filesize:  226.93 KB
 Downloaded:  1293 Time(s)


JPVF_LPsweep.mp3
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 Filename:  JPVF_LPsweep.mp3
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmm.so there are 3 filters like this on that pcb?

(in series then?)

is there a synoptic somewhere how this unit works?
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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the unit contains three voltage controlled filters, each providing a BP and a LP out. both, the frequency and the resonance is voltage controllable.

the filters are in parallel, the outputs get mixed using a CV mixer, so it makes up for a very nice complex resonator, too.

there is a CV shaper in front of each filter (i brought their outputs to the frontpanel, normalled to the filters freq CVs). each shaper consists of 4 breakpoints (+/-gain, position) to create complex transfer functions.
it is possible by adjusting the shapers to select the filters by CV. however, i don't have accomplished this still (you will need a scope to do that, i believe).

here you'll find the original documentation:
http://www.noniandjim.com/Jim/synthmodules/vocalfilter.pdf

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TekniK



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hmm,ok its the shapers with breakpoints in fact that keep care to select the right freqs to get those vowel formants where u want them?
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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that's how i understand it. one has to adjust the shapers in the correct way, so that at certain incoming CVs the right freq/resonances will be audible.
i am with mr patchell here and don't even try to simulate human vowels, but try to have some fun with the filters.

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diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

would be interested in a board if this is still happening, prepay all good too.
love this filter and though it may take a very long time before i can get to build this one i would rather have a board sit there for a while than try to resurect this project down the track
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Paradigm X



Joined: Feb 15, 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this thing looks amazing! Shocked

Did only fonik build one

Might have to have a look at it... only take me a few years! Lol

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Psynth



Joined: Jul 18, 2018
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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I am trying to understand how this filter works, with the aim of building it substituting LM13700s for the CA3280s. (I know they are not quite as good OTAs in some ways, but at least they are available in 2020.)

As far as I can see, the actual filter is a fairly standard State-Variable based around two OTAs (U17 on the schematic for the first filter), with a third OTA (U20A) in the resonance feedback path to allow voltage control of Q.

The voltage control for Q (U23 and Q8/9 pair) is a familiar exponential 1V/Oct setup, without any temperature compensation - though I think this could easily be achieved by replacing R134 (2k) with a tempco? Presumably thought, temperature variation is the value of Q is not critical.

The Frequency control is achieved through another exponential converter Q5/6, which here is driven by an OTA (U20B), and with temperature compensation provided by a circuit feeding the Id pin.

My first question is whether that method of compensation is achievable with LM13700s?

The gain of U20B is set from a -10V reference, which has a 20k trimmer marked Scale. But I can't find any instruction on how this is meant to be set - what value measured where is being scaled? Would it not be simpler to scale the CV by adjusting R119 (the 100k resistor in the feedback loop of the inverting opamp summer?

Next question -why not use the standard V/Oct expo converter with a PTC for temperature compensation for this subcircuit too? (As Ray Wilson does in his State Variable VCF)

Hope someone who has built one of these filters , and/or knows the theory better than me can help.

Thanks
Peter
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drapdap



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Psynth wrote:
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but I am trying to understand how this filter works, with the aim of building it substituting LM13700s for the CA3280s. (I know they are not quite as good OTAs in some ways, but at least they are available in 2020.)


Hi Peter!

Before you do redesign, please take a look at this:
https://www.ericasynths.lv/shop/diy/diy-accessories/as3280-dual-ota/

New reisssue of the 3280. Smile
i`m also still dreaming of building a vocal filter, just got reminded by the Micromodular next to me...
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Psynth



Joined: Jul 18, 2018
Posts: 19
Location: UK
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've spent the past months breadboarding sections of this module, variously modified, primarily to replace the 3280s with LM13700s. I've succeeded in producing a working filter section with a fairly strong resonance in band-pass mode (the CV processor and VCA sections are rather more straightforward). Won't know until I have the whole thing build whether it actually works as a vocal filter...

Anyway, thought I would share a picture of the front panel - this is a real beast of a module. It has three large stripboard PCBs, which I have started constructing. Be a while before I can share any sound samples!

I settled on 3 filters; 3 VCAs hardwired to the band-pass outputs (the low-pass outputs are available from the front panel, and there is a fourth VCA which can take an external input (which could of course be one of the LP outputs)); and five CV processors, three with four breakpoints each, and two with just two breakpoints. The first three are intended to control the frequency of the three filters, and the other two are for controlling the resonance or VCA gain, if it seems worthwhile to drive those independently. All the CV outputs are available from the front panel too.


P1030422.JPG
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The front panel, 35 x 20 cm
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 Viewed:  28 Time(s)
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P1030422.JPG



P1030420.JPG
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The rear of panel, with bus wiring completed
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P1030420.JPG


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Psynth



Joined: Jul 18, 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So I finally got this module built and working.
Three large stripboard circuits, about 50 pots,...on a par with the Klee or MFOS time quantized sequencers for size of build.

I'll post schematics later of the filter section adapted to use LM13700's. But here are a couple of audio samples of the filter in action and tuned to human formants. One file is at a male voice pitch, with vowel sounds 'ee', then 'ah', then 'oo'; the second file is pitched for a female voice, in the reverse order - 'oo', then 'ah', then 'ee'. It's a lot of work with a scope to set each filter up to the relevant resonant frequency.

I've no idea how this compares to the original, though I suspect the resonance doesn't go as high.

A third file is noodling around with the CV processors (each with four breakpoints, one for each filter).
The CV processors are pretty impressive modules in their own right - and you're not of course restricted to using them for CV - with audio input, they make cool waveshapers.

Was it worth all the effort? Well, it's quite a distinctive filter, but a very big build and a lot of panel space. I enjoyed the design and build.


Male ee ah oo.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Male ee ah oo.mp3
 Filesize:  1.63 MB
 Downloaded:  33 Time(s)


Female oo ah ee.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Female oo ah ee.mp3
 Filesize:  695.07 KB
 Downloaded:  38 Time(s)


CV Processor.mp3
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 Filename:  CV Processor.mp3
 Filesize:  1.4 MB
 Downloaded:  30 Time(s)

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Psynth



Joined: Jul 18, 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A couple of images of the assembled module.


Vocal Filter #1.jpg
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Vocal Filter #1.jpg



Vocal Filter #2.jpg
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Vocal Filter #2.jpg


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