Would you prefer one PCB with 3 VCOs a la JH-5A, or 1 VCO per PCB with more features |
One PCB with Oscillator Driver and 3 VCO cores (like JH-5A - cheap!) |
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60% |
[ 62 ] |
1 PCB = 1 VCO (with many waveforms and inputs) |
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39% |
[ 41 ] |
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Total Votes : 103 |
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject:
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Here's the frontpanel of the JH-5A, which shows what features a combination od Oscillator Driver + 3 VCOs would have.
JH.
Now playing: Tori Amos, American Doll Posse
Description: |
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jh5_front.pdf |
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119.9 KB |
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1231 Time(s) |
_________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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blue hell
Site Admin

Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24387 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: | Is there a way to add a poll on a thread that's already in use? |
Yes, by editing the first post of the thread. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject:
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Blue Hell wrote: | jhaible wrote: | Is there a way to add a poll on a thread that's already in use? |
Yes, by editing the first post of the thread. |
Thank you!
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject:
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Poll added - please vote!
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Luka

Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1003 Location: Melb.
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/mr

Joined: Aug 05, 2007 Posts: 223 Location: Elektron City, Sweden
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: | vtl5c3 wrote: | I'm interested. Are we talking one VCO per board or more?
Romeo |
That's a good question.
Depends on how many waveforms you need.
In the JH-5, there's only saw and pulse (with PWM) and one Oscillator Driver controlling 3 VCO cores. This can be very compact. Maybe (maybe!) 3 VCOs on a single 27 Euro PCB.
If you want full fledged VCOs with all waveforms and all kind of modulation inputs, it's probably one VCO per board. |
Given that linear detune is mostly useful when more than one VCO signal is combined, and that many users can lose the point if the module is a single VCO, I definitely think this design would be best with a dual or triple unit. For me that feels much more valuable than having all kinds of sugar on it.
I've been thinking of different variants of the theme... for instance a dual oscillator with a common Detune pot that tunes the VCOs in opposite directions, and a Balance pot that sets their relative amplitude AND keeps them in "weighted well-tunedness" by tuning them so that the louder "heavier" VCO is closer to the base frequency. If you get my point.
The reason for balancing them to different amplitudes could be the probably well-know fact that the fundamental (or bass, or "body") component of the sound fades in and out if you sum two similar waves with slight detuning. Then I thought about the possibility to have the lower harmonics coming from one single un-detuned VCO and the higher ones from two or more linearly detuned VCOs. The "detune sound" would then appear in the range at the top where it's good to have it, and the bass/body range is stable and solid. The HP/LP filters between the two ranges would probably need to follow the VCOs pitch though, which might make it less straightforward in analogue hardware...
Another solution for this would be to only have the very fundamental coming from one sine VCO, and then add a couple of linearly detuned VCOs with their fundamentals removed. This is actually very doable, and I realize just now when writing this that maybe that's what you should try if you want to add a new invention to it?
(CS-50 owners of the world unite - we all know how good it is to add the sinewave bottom after finishing the creamy goodies at the top) |
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Sebo

Joined: Apr 27, 2007 Posts: 564 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject:
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A triple VCO is very appealing to me.
[/quote] _________________ Sebo
---------------------------------------
My Music:
https://www.facebook.com/cosaquitos/ |
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Dego

Joined: Apr 22, 2008 Posts: 139 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:52 am Post subject:
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Sebo wrote: | A triple VCO is very appealing to me.
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I want one! |
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numbertalk

Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Austin, TX
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:53 am Post subject:
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I voted for the triple VCO as well. |
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a_guy_called_tom
Joined: Jun 21, 2008 Posts: 31 Location: mountains
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:54 am Post subject:
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i would be very interested (2-4 vcos), assuming it works with +- 12 volts, the pcb is small enough for eurorack and there aren't any really hard to get parts needed.
sounds like a great project!
tom |
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mono-poly

Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 937 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:04 am Post subject:
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I'd love to see a Buchla 158 or 144 like vco.
Simple vco with 1 waveform output.
But great fm and/or am sound. |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject:
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mono-poly wrote: | I'd love to see a Buchla 158 or 144 like vco.
Simple vco with 1 waveform output.
But great fm and/or am sound. |
I proposed doing this several months ago, but there wasn't much interest:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-28713.html
I guess if it doesn't say M... or B..... it's gonna get killed by the fanatics.
Ian |
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bugfight

Joined: Aug 02, 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Arlington, TX USA
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject:
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hehe which fanatic will try to kill the "living" vco? |
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mono-poly

Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 937 Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject:
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frijitz wrote: | mono-poly wrote: | I'd love to see a Buchla 158 or 144 like vco.
Simple vco with 1 waveform output.
But great fm and/or am sound. |
I proposed doing this several months ago, but there wasn't much interest:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-28713.html
I guess if it doesn't say M... or B..... it's gonna get killed by the fanatics.
Ian |
Hmm Ian
That might be interesting for me.
Someow i did mis that.
Do you want me to make some examples with fm and am on some old Buchla ones? |
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johans121

Joined: Jun 19, 2007 Posts: 178 Location: Huntsville, AL (USA)
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject:
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I'd be interested in both JH's & Ian's. More VCO's the better. _________________ Don't feed me Indian, you WILL regret it!
-Jim |
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Peake

Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1113 Location: Loss Angeles
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject:
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frijitz wrote: | mono-poly wrote: | I'd love to see a Buchla 158 or 144 like vco.
Simple vco with 1 waveform output.
But great fm and/or am sound. |
I proposed doing this several months ago, but there wasn't much interest:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-28713.html
I guess if it doesn't say M... or B..... it's gonna get killed by the fanatics.
Ian |
Or E... or O... or SSM... or T... or... well, you get the idea...
And what oscillators AREN'T living???? You use the "living" adjective to describe something desirable...as opposed to something undesirable?? _________________ We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid. -mwagener
"IC 741. Sometimes you don't want fidelity." -Small Bear Electronics Catalog |
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject:
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Peake wrote: |
And what oscillators AREN'T living???? You use the "living" adjective to describe something desirable...as opposed to something undesirable?? |
Don't think of it as an adjective in the first place - it's intended to be a *name*. I like it better than "JH-5A, VCO section".
The first post in this thread describes the idea behind it.
These will be *cheap* VCOs: unexpensive components, 3 VCOs on a single PCB (if I follow the poll), not the best precision that could otherwise be achieved, but with some design details that may (or maybe may not) make them interesting for a few people nevertheless.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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numbernone
Joined: Aug 16, 2006 Posts: 477 Location: new york city
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject:
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I am interested in several triples if "cheap" falls into my definition.
Oh hell I would probably take several regardless. |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject:
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Peake wrote: |
Or E... or O... or SSM... or T... or... well, you get the idea...
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Yes, loud and clear. You are going to dump on *anything* new. |
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:32 am Post subject:
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numbernone wrote: | I am interested in several triples if "cheap" falls into my definition.
Oh hell I would probably take several regardless. |
If I go for it, it probably will be the usual 160mm x 100mm board for 27.00 EUR.
If I don't get 3 VCOs on such a board, I'll probably go for 2 on the same size.
(It's not just a matter of how densely I can populate the boards, but also of preventing them from unwanted sync effects.)
I think 27.00 EUR would be a good price even for 2 VCOs per board - but my goal is 3.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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TekniK

Joined: Aug 10, 2008 Posts: 1059
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:32 am Post subject:
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2 vco's on one pcb is ideal Juergen,but would be perfect if u just could add sine for both 2 on the pcb |
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Tenine
Joined: Sep 13, 2006 Posts: 44 Location: Coventry
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject:
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Looks pretty interesting to me!
This could be a nice first module that follows the 1V/Oct standard.
What sort of parts will be needed?
Just standard op-amps or OTAs? Anything that's hard to find outside Europe?
Thanks. |
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Tenine
Joined: Sep 13, 2006 Posts: 44 Location: Coventry
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject:
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Looks pretty interesting to me!
This could be a nice first module that follows the 1V/Oct standard.
What sort of parts will be needed?
Just standard op-amps or OTAs? Anything that's hard to find outside Europe?
Thanks. |
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:39 am Post subject:
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Tenine wrote: | Looks pretty interesting to me!
This could be a nice first module that follows the 1V/Oct standard.
What sort of parts will be needed?
Just standard op-amps or OTAs? Anything that's hard to find outside Europe?
Thanks. |
No special parts, as far as I can tell now.
I have to look inside what I've built to check what transistors I've actually used, but the simulation files show the trusty old BC550C and BC560C everywhere.
You will need a differential pair per VCO, of course.
I'll provide footprints for different options here.
The Oscillator Driver in what I've built has a 3080 OTA for aftertouch-controlled vibrato, but it's easy to replace this with something less obsolete in the PCB version.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) Last edited by jhaible on Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fluxmonkey
Joined: Jun 24, 2005 Posts: 708 Location: cleve
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Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:44 am Post subject:
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i polled in for 1-osc-per-board... altho i'd probably build a set, my thinking is that separate boards would make the physical build easier: i usually have lots of ins and out on my oscillators (multiple modulations etc) and the number of flying wires can get pretty ratsnest; individual boards would help divide and conquer that confusion.
along the same lines, i also find it helpful to have the modulation ins and the outputs routed to headers that are physically proximate, and ideally near the edge of the board... again, for sanity in construction. board-mounted pots sometimes serve the same idea, but aren't as useful to me 'cause i build in frac and most such pots are spaced for 5u... but its sort of the same idea. of couse, this is secondary to requirments to electically isolate sections from crosscoupling, etc.
just my input, j. in any event i'm in for this. much appreciated as always!
b _________________ www.fluxmonkey.com |
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