Author |
Message |
darkomen
Joined: Jun 21, 2010 Posts: 40 Location: USA
|
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:14 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Didn't think it was possible to make a CMOS linear, may just have to try this, but I think I'll stick with the basics since I haven't dabbled with lunettas much.
On the guidelines, I think that maybe more than 2 months would be better, as I'm a pretty busy person, maybe starting June to the end of August?
I agree with what Draal was saying (no op-amps or transistors only passives), but I think we should just limit it to what is in the assortment (no outside chips, gotta make due with what you got).
@tjookum, what's the source of the book you've posted? |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Psyingo
Joined: Jun 11, 2009 Posts: 248 Location: Canada
|
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:54 am Post subject:
|
|
|
darkomen wrote: | Didn't think it was possible to make a CMOS linear, may just have to try this, but I think I'll stick with the basics since I haven't dabbled with lunettas much.
On the guidelines, I think that maybe more than 2 months would be better, as I'm a pretty busy person, maybe starting June to the end of August?
I agree with what Draal was saying (no op-amps or transistors only passives), but I think we should just limit it to what is in the assortment (no outside chips, gotta make due with what you got).
@tjookum, what's the source of the book you've posted? |
linear operation is certainly possible. i've made analog vca's, vcf's, vco's etc with just cmos chips.
yes, no outside chips from the assortment and no transistors. thats THE CHALLENGE of it. if we could pick whatever it wouldnt be much of a challenge.
the source book was originally from, i think, Dr. Offset. I think it was just a CMOS book that had only those 2 pages on linear cmos. |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
inlifeindeath
Joined: Apr 02, 2010 Posts: 316 Location: Albuquerque, NM
|
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 2:19 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
got mine today, here's what they sent:
HEF4011BP (3) Quadruple 2-input NAND gate
MC14015BCP Dual 4-Bit Static Shift Register
4018BCP Preset Divide By N Counter
CD4019BE Quad AND/OR Select Gate
CD4020BE (2) 14-Stage Ripple-Carry Binary Counter/Divider
CD4022BE (2) Octal Counter with 8 Decoded Outputs
MC14040BCP (4) 12-Bit Binary Counter
HCF4040BE "
CD4052BCN (4) Dual 4-Channel Analog Multiplexer/Demultiplexer
CD4052BE (2) "
MC14503BCP Hex Non-Inverting 3-State Buffer
HEF4512BP (3) 8-input multiplexer with 3-state output _________________ http://www.youtube.com/user/borisandfef |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008 Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
|
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
I'm thinking that op amps shouldn't be ruled out. some people might like to perhaps use something like a LM386 to amplify the output so they can run a small speaker. I cant see why this would be an issue. It's essentially the same as running through a guitar amplifier or what have you. It shouldn't be a problem as it's no difference in just building the amp and plugging into it with a lead anyway. It would be nice to see some self contained units.
Personally I'll be using minimal components. Apart from the 25 IC's I don't think I'll be using any other 'traditional' electronic store components... such as resistors, capacitors, wire etc. I'm even thinking of eliminating obvious power sources.
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
sndbyte
Joined: Jun 26, 2009 Posts: 119 Location: sf
|
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:14 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Here is what I received in my kit yesterday:
(x2) HEF4001BP Quadruple 2-input NOR gate
(x1) MC14503BCP Hex Non-Inverting 3-State Buffer
[x8] CD4019BE CMOS Quad AND/OR Select Gate
(x1) HCF4020BE 14-Stage Ripple-Carry Binary Counter/Divider
(x3) CD4020BE CMOS 14-Stage Ripple-Carry Binary Counter/Divider
(x1) CD4022BE CMOS Octal Counter with 8 Decoded Outputs
(x2) MC14040BCP 12-Bit Binary Counter
(x4) HEF4512BP 8-input multiplexer with 3-state output
(x4) MC14069UBCP Hex Inverter |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Captain Biscuits
Joined: Jun 11, 2010 Posts: 116 Location: Northampton, UK
|
Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 3:46 am Post subject:
|
|
|
I do like the range of ideas people are putting forward already. I'm toying with ideas which might involve a bunch of rotary switches to route and patch stuff.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what minus comes up with without "resistors, capacitors, wire etc" not using wire is impressively hardcore
As for the discussions about linear operations - I'm going to have to go and do a lot of reading before I even understand what you guys are talking about. This whole thing is certainly a challenge!
Just itching to get my hands on a kit of parts!
Ian Last edited by Captain Biscuits on Sat May 21, 2011 5:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
|
Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 4:53 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Ian, I started a thread in this forum about Linear CMOS. It's title is simply "Linear CMOS" (IIRC). Perhaps you can report some of what you learn from study in that thread?
Les _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008 Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
|
Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:25 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Captain Biscuits wrote: |
I'm really looking forward to seeing what minus comes up with without "resistors, capacitors, wire etc" not using wire is impressively hardcore
Ian |
I'm putting all 25 random IC's into a gourd and making a maraca! |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Captain Biscuits
Joined: Jun 11, 2010 Posts: 116 Location: Northampton, UK
|
Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:31 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Brilliant |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
tjookum
Joined: May 25, 2010 Posts: 360 Location: Netherlands
Audio files: 26
|
Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:55 am Post subject:
|
|
|
hahaha _________________ There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
Hunter S. Thompson
movies
noise |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
|
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:58 am Post subject:
|
|
|
My parts arrived today. I asked wmonk in chat to flip a coin to select which bag i would use and I got heads, so this is the kit:
3 x CD4001 Quad 2-Input NOR Gate
1 x CD4011 Quad 2-Input NAND Gate
3 x CD4019 Quad And/Or Select Gate
3 x CD4020 14 Stage Ripple-Carry Binary Counter/Divider
4 x CD4022 Divide by 4 Counter with 8 Decoded Outputs
1 x CD4023 Triple Three Input NAND Gate
2 x MC14040 12-Stage Ripple-Carry Binary Counter/Divider
3 x CD4052 Quad 4-Channel Analog Multiplexer/Demultiplexer
4 x HEF4512 8-Channel Data Selector
I'm totally psyched about it. The discrete logic content is perfect for what I want to do, the counters are perfect for Boolean Sequencers, those 4022's can make 8 step sequencers I believe, and the 4512 and 4052 selectors / muses can select various data patterns. Overall it's exactly what I would hope for, a mix of the old and the new (with plenty of new) to challenge me yet also allow me to make use a bit of prior skills.
Oh, and the solar cells are cool and the speaker is nice too. I'm going to need to use an LM386 for the speaker driver, sorry if anyone balks at that but i am making a stand-alone waterproof sound generator with no i/o switches or anything at all, fully sealed and solar powered, so I need that speaker to work.
OK, I'm all set and ready to go, let's get this thing rolling!
Les _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
rosch
Joined: Oct 03, 2009 Posts: 164 Location: germany
|
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:02 am Post subject:
|
|
|
i've ordered my cmos surprise pack yesterday evening, should arrive in 1-2 days i hope. |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Draal
Joined: May 18, 2010 Posts: 308 Location: Oak Park, IL
Audio files: 5
|
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 4:31 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Inventor wrote: | My parts arrived today. I asked wmonk in chat to flip a coin to select which bag i would use and I got heads, so this is the kit:
3 x CD4001 Quad 2-Input NOR Gate
1 x CD4011 Quad 2-Input NAND Gate
3 x CD4019 Quad And/Or Select Gate
3 x CD4020 14 Stage Ripple-Carry Binary Counter/Divider
4 x CD4022 Divide by 4 Counter with 8 Decoded Outputs
1 x CD4023 Triple Three Input NAND Gate
2 x MC14040 12-Stage Ripple-Carry Binary Counter/Divider
3 x CD4052 Quad 4-Channel Analog Multiplexer/Demultiplexer
4 x HEF4512 8-Channel Data Selector
I'm totally psyched about it. The discrete logic content is perfect for what I want to do, the counters are perfect for Boolean Sequencers, those 4022's can make 8 step sequencers I believe, and the 4512 and 4052 selectors / muses can select various data patterns. Overall it's exactly what I would hope for, a mix of the old and the new (with plenty of new) to challenge me yet also allow me to make use a bit of prior skills.
Oh, and the solar cells are cool and the speaker is nice too. I'm going to need to use an LM386 for the speaker driver, sorry if anyone balks at that but i am making a stand-alone waterproof sound generator with no i/o switches or anything at all, fully sealed and solar powered, so I need that speaker to work.
OK, I'm all set and ready to go, let's get this thing rolling!
Les |
Excellent! Agreed, I see no reason why we can't use the 386 for our amp purposes. The circuit is very easy and necessary if ya want to hear the darn thing ! Your idea sounds pretty cool too. _________________ Zontar Prevails! |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
|
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:47 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
I cannot wait to begin... must... resist... urge... to... design... Lunettas....
Augh!
Les _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
|
Posted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:42 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
I'm sorry, I know it may not be fair but I simply cannot resist working on this project. I have to strike while the iron is hot, because I know I will eventually move on to other ideas and lose interest in this one (the iron will cool). Also I have given some thought to creating Lunetta art sculptures for sale as a product and that will require a lot of extra time. Designing a thing for production takes me more time than creating unique items.
So I will begin now and I'm going to try to chronicle my design in a text file and publish it later. That way I won't be cluttering up this thread with all my comments as I tend to do otherwise. I hope nobody minds that I begin now, for I must.
Les _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
rosch
Joined: Oct 03, 2009 Posts: 164 Location: germany
|
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:59 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Les, yeah why not!
after all it's a challenge between us and the unpowered chips rather between each of us, no?
and speaking for me, you're already miles ahead, anyways |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Draal
Joined: May 18, 2010 Posts: 308 Location: Oak Park, IL
Audio files: 5
|
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:56 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Hmmm. How long should we wait for more people? Those that are interested should strike while the iron is hot/or free time permits. Whether there are 5 of us up for the challenge or 25, I think it will be very fun what we come up with.
I think the main goal of this thread is to get some more excitement into lunetta building. Those that have chips, get rolling as time permits. For those yet to order, let's hear from ya. If it takes a few weeks or a couple of months, progress in this thread should offer inspiration to others.
I am still short on supplies such as hookup wire, perf and solder, so I can't start until I order. And THAT happens when I'm not zonked out from raising my 10 month old and 6 year old . _________________ Zontar Prevails! |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
droffset
Joined: Feb 02, 2009 Posts: 515 Location: London area
Audio files: 2
|
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Captain Biscuits
Joined: Jun 11, 2010 Posts: 116 Location: Northampton, UK
|
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:45 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Enthusiasm is a precious resource - get in and get at it whilst the iron's hot!
It would be lovely to be able to all start at once and work together but we're all in different circumstances so we're all going to have different start dates and different amounts of time and energy.
What's bugging me is that some people are blatantly cheating by knowing what they're talking about before they start - that's a dreadfully unfair advantage
I may resort to putting bits of paper in a hat and pulling out 25 to get some random chips - or writing an excel spreadsheet to produce a list for me!
Now my Thomas Henry Quad Bass ++ is finished I can start concentrating on trying to understand CMOS and try to make a start on this.
Cheers
Ian |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
|
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:04 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
I'd like to comment on the subject of different skill levels, as it continually arises in friendly competitive events like this one. I tend to appreciate a build where you've put a lot of yourself into it. If that means you do an oscillator collectrion cause you're new and want to explore oscillators, then so be it. As some of us have mentioned I happen to be a heavy hitter in this one. Well, that just raises my bar all the more higher. I can't just slap together a Boolean Sequencer and use Linear CMOS to build a Karplus Strong (though that would be cool), because that wouldn't be all that much of a challenge.
What I will tell you is this: Last night i brainstormed an came up with something really really good. It is technologically interesting, thoughtful, reflective, and meaningful on a personal level. In fact, I had the notion that we could each have the option of either keeping our buld or how about this - send it to Stan. Wouldn't that be a nice gesture. So with that in mind I wanted to make something a bit touching, and this thing is. I want to tell what it is, but best to wait and see if it works well or not first!
Les _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008 Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
|
Posted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:25 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Inventor wrote: |
What I will tell you is this: Last night i brainstormed an came up with something really really good. It is technologically interesting, thoughtful, reflective, and meaningful on a personal level.
Les |
Wait... don't tell me... you are building a CMOS stun knife! ...and sending it to Stan! |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
|
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 3:42 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Haha, I mailed that thing to a friend who happens to be a knife collector. It took a while, but eventually it fully served it's purpose as a icon of abuse-fueled angry wrath. Now I have the song to remember it by, which is rather poetic if you think about it. When our time ends, if we're lucky and meet a good ending, the last thing to go is the hearing. Like the voice of a friend or lover long gone, the song reminds me of my seething desire for retribution against my perpetrators. I can laugh about it now. I did a remix of the song, My Secret Weapon, it's in the Mixes section of the forum recently posted.
Les _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
rosch
Joined: Oct 03, 2009 Posts: 164 Location: germany
|
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:27 am Post subject:
|
|
|
i got my randoms:
(now including the descriptions)
11x V4013D (eastern soviet germany) dual D-type flip flop
5x MC14016B quad analog switch / multiplexer
1x MC14002BCP dual 4-input NOR gate
1x MC14554BCP 2bit-by-2bit parallel binary multiplier
1x HEF40106BP hex inverting schmitt trigger
2x MC14557BCP 1-to-64-bit variable length shift register
1x HEF40374BP octal D-type flip-flop with 3-state outputs
1x MC14530BCP dual 5-input Majority logic gate
1x MC14018BCP presettable divide by N counter
1x CD4068BE cmos 8-input NAND AND gate Last edited by rosch on Thu May 26, 2011 9:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Draal
Joined: May 18, 2010 Posts: 308 Location: Oak Park, IL
Audio files: 5
|
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 4:40 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Nice set of chips rosch! The 4554 and 4557 look very interesting and there's a couple there I can't even find info on...yet . _________________ Zontar Prevails! |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
|
Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 5:28 am Post subject:
|
|
|
rosch, could you post the description of those chips? I am not familiar wit those. An interesting part of this challenge has been taking a brief moment to study each person's chip assortment and imagineer what could be done with only those chips. Fun.
Les _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|