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Feedback instruments / no-input mixer / zero-input mixer
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Acoustic Interloper



Joined: Jul 07, 2007
Posts: 2051
Location: Berks County, PA
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:40 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: March 19, 2016 ZIM video
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Here is the video of the ZIM piece from the March 19, 2016 Kutztown Planetarium evening, with yours truly on zero input mixers, Genevieve Smith on the JAWS reader, and Emily Hoch on visual accompaniment generated from the audio via a Processing sketch that I wrote for the June 2015 2-day conference, and which she performed for ZIM there as well. I just watched/listened to this for a second time, and am really pleased with how the set turned out. Thanks to Steve Mokris for recording and posting this set.
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Acoustic Interloper



Joined: Jul 07, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 4:22 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: tuned post-processing on ZIM signals
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I have been experimenting with various kind of post-processing FX in Live, downstream from my 3 mixers. All feedback-driven signal generation is in the mixers, with Live FX post-processing downstream from the mixers. The idea is to be able to tickle characteristics of a Live FX without taking hands off the mixer.

Here is a simple example. (I am saving the rest up for the summer solstice webcast.) Tune the stereo pair in my mixer, one to high pitch and the other to low pitch, and then send them to a filtered delay in Live. In the pictured delay I have knocked the mid-range out all together (gain = -infinity), and set the high frequency range to echo at 3 times the period of the low frequency range, giving me multiple rhythms.To get anything out of a delay, things need to change from time to time. Otherwise you just have sustain.

It was necessary to make the feedback higher on the faster delay, otherwise it decays much faster than the other.

You can then sweep pitch from the mixer, manually or using mixer FX, to vary the effect. You could put the Live patch's delays on a foot controller, so as to keep hands on the mixer. I haven't done that yet. This recording just illustrates the basic idea.


zim3to1Live.png
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The Live patch
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zim3to1Live.png



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The waveforms of the recording
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zim3to1Waves.png



zim3to1.mp3
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The sample recording

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Acoustic Interloper



Joined: Jul 07, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 4:16 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: Friday Night Cheddar
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Practicin' up for Summer Solstice on a 3 ZIM Salad with Live Dressing. I didn't think it went 20 minutes. Cool


FridayNightCheddar.mp3
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Friday Night Cheddar

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:29 am    Post subject:
Subject description: Friday Night Cheddar
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Acoustic Interloper wrote:
Practicin' up for Summer Solstice on a 3 ZIM Salad with Live Dressing. I didn't think it went 20 minutes. Cool


Barely so - but another nice number Laughing

Nice track!

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Acoustic Interloper



Joined: Jul 07, 2007
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Audio files: 89

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:18 am    Post subject:
Subject description: Friday Night Cheddar
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Blue Hell wrote:
Acoustic Interloper wrote:
Practicin' up for Summer Solstice on a 3 ZIM Salad with Live Dressing. I didn't think it went 20 minutes. Cool


Barely so - but another nice number Laughing

Nice track!

Thanks again, Jan! I have a 62-minute whopper cooked up for either June Solstice or a One-Off radio set. The second week in May, after classes let out, is always a burst of pent-up music for me, so I just turned on the recording during three live improv sessions with the mixers, cut out the four best sections with no over-dub or other editing, and voilà: From the No World (The No World Symphony). I am eager to stream it. Very Happy

Thanks for listening.

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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:33 am    Post subject:
Subject description: From the No World
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Posted my June 2016 Solstice piece From the No World over here on the Solstice thread. There is a photo of the rig and a discussion of that piece on the first page of the event thread. I always look forward to playing the solstice events during my breaks from teaching. Very Happy
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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: Channel panning in zero-input mixer
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Oh, look, it's been a year! Cool

Attached is a short recording of an exercise. I used the Allen & Heath ZED 12Fx mixer with the Nux Mod Core's PAN effect in the stereo feedback path. Channel 1 on the mixer is set to generate the lower pitch, channel 2 to the higher. I used the ZED's fx unit to add some reverb on the outgoing signal, not in the feedback path, because I like it.

Think about panning for a moment. At the start the PAN is set to slowest rate and 100% dry, so no PAN. The channels are isolated, and just play their mixer-equalizer-determined pitches.

Here is the sequence of PAN parameter changes during this recording:

Start — feedback pan on lowest rate and driest wet : dry ratio.
The two channels run without interacting.
Ramp up wet : dry to 100% wet by 15 seconds.
You get one or the other resonant frequency, not both.
At 1 minute start ramping up pan rate.
At 1:13 the low pitch goes away due to shortened “resonant chamber”.
Rate maximum at 1:30, Slow it back down , at 1:59 back into low mode.
Around 2:10 is automatically shifts between a low-high and
a medium-high pair of pitches.
At 2:52 slow rate, at 3:00 increase it to max at 3:18.
Finally back wet : dry down at dry after 3:20.

In essence, a fast, 100% wet pan interleaves both channels almost simultaneously into one channel, but it switches so fast that the long/low pitches never have time to develop. The part "Around 2:10 is automatically shifts between a low-high and a medium-high pair of pitches." is the most interesting, because it is at a panning boundary where it snaps back & forth between two semi-stable modes of operation without any human interaction. Those state transition regions are always the most interesting in playing ZIM.

Ping-pong delays also interleave the channels to interesting effect. The Mod Core doesn't have that, but the Pan gives a similar, albeit more continuous effect.


Panning170623_00.mp3
 Description:
PAN mixer exercise per above description, 3:41 duration, Dale E. Parson

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L´Andratté



Joined: Sep 23, 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, A.I., hell of a thread, thanks for the interesting documents, listened just to TheFinalFive, but from beginning to end and I loved it.
It sounds like synthesis with a very organic/acoustic/"real" touch like a field recording Very Happy

I have always felt drawn toward minimalistic forms- gotta read all this stuff now and suck up some new inspiration.
Thanks
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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

L´Andratté wrote:
Wow, A.I., hell of a thread, thanks for the interesting documents, listened just to TheFinalFive, but from beginning to end and I loved it.
It sounds like synthesis with a very organic/acoustic/"real" touch like a field recording Very Happy

I have always felt drawn toward minimalistic forms- gotta read all this stuff now and suck up some new inspiration.
Thanks


Glad you like it. Very Happy Analog synthesis at its core. From the No World (The No World Symphony) from June 2016 webcast is my favorite no-input mixer + post-mixer-effects so far. I will be playing some ZIM in the mix tomorrow, Saturday 24 March at 17:00 GMT, for the equinox webcast. I haven't had much time to prep, so tomorrow's will be extremely improvised. Cool http://radio.electro-music.com

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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Video for first movement of From the No World
Subject description: 19 minute video from my June 2016 solstice performance
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Here is a video I created recently to accompany the 19 minute, first movement of my no-input mixer From the No World that I performed in the June 2016 Solstice Webcast. This is my custom visualization software written in the Processing/Java framework while listening to the piece. As with ZIM, there is feedback in this video. First form is manipulation of past frames on the canvas -- feedback over time -- and second form is occasional use of some screen shots of the previous frame as one of the paintbrushes.
Please watch in high-def full screen.



Copyright 2016-2018, Dale E. Parson, Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)

Solstice webcast full recording is on this thread.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

W Cool W - that's great!
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
W Cool W - that's great!

Thanks, Jan! I still have fun listening to it & watching it. I did the video in one pass on the spur of the moment at bedtime, just me and the dogs.

It didn't get accepted at https://www.imersa.org/summit -- they are oriented towards commercial videos, I think -- but they did accept my 10-minute talk for the work I did in our planetarium during the summer. I've never been to this conference before, in a science center with a big planetarium in Columbus, OH, should be fun.

Sabbatical leave in the spring!!!

Have a Merry Christmas. santa I am pretty sure I will have time after final exams to work something up for New Year's Eve. Cool Take care.

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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: NYE 2018-2019
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My New Year's Eve piece for 2018-2019, Rate of Change, mostly no-input mixer, is posted here.
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L´Andratté



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Two interestic reads on topic:
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/p/pod/dod-idx/towards-a-typology-of-feedback-systems.pdf?c=icmc;idno=bbp2372.2012.006;format=pdf

https://wesscholar.wesleyan.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1123&context=etd_hon_theses

Cheers Very Happy
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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

L´Andratté wrote:
Two interestic reads on topic:
https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/p/pod/dod-idx/towards-a-typology-of-feedback-systems.pdf?c=icmc;idno=bbp2372.2012.006;format=pdf

https://wesscholar.wesleyan.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1123&context=etd_hon_theses

Cheers Very Happy

Thanks for posting! They are on the must read list. 😎

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Airlock



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now that I'm retired I keep thinking about how I have the base of the most bonkers zero-input mixer setup imaginable in the form of a unused Speck Xtramix, but then ElectroHarmonix comes out with something just a tad more reasonable for $140.


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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Airlock wrote:
Now that I'm retired I keep thinking about how I have the base of the most bonkers zero-input mixer setup imaginable in the form of a unused Speck Xtramix, but then ElectroHarmonix comes out with something just a tad more reasonable for $140.

Cool! Please post some samples when you get time. Cool

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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:26 am    Post subject: Dox the Coup
Subject description: Sonic response to attempted coup in U.S. Capitol 6 July 2021
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I decided that before I Tear down the New Year's Eve arrangement of mixers in my study in preparation for another busy semester of teaching Crying or Very sad , I should improvise & record a ZIM piece.

This 58ish minute piece Dox the Coup is inspired by the traffic on social media during and following the attempted coup on the U.S. Congress on 6 January 2021, which was inspired by their fascist leader. It ain't over yet. The title Dox the Coup is inspired by this hack on the parler social media site where much of the planning for violence took place. Amazon Web Services dropped hosting their media site on Monday morning, following Google's and Apple's dropping distribution of their apps, but not before this hacker got in with admin permissions, grabbed everything, and posted it publicly. The FBI undoubtedly has done the same, but now this dataset is available to journalists and the public. I'd have my data science students dig into this dataset if I had time for a new project. I am eager to see what gets spilled. We have some fascist supporting legislators in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately I live in the U.S. House district of one. We have been flooding him with pretty intense feedback lately.

The first 24:33 minutes are strictly the red Galaxy AXS-10 and Yamaha MG124cx mixers, sometimes pure feedback-driven tones shaped by the analog EQs compressors & level adjustments, and sometimes coupling their DSP effects units into the feedback. I got a lot of sonic variety out of just the mixers.From 24:34 until the end I used the pictured Ableton Live and Max-for-Live audio fx (one or two at a time) on the output of the mixers. I mostly avoided duplicating in Live the chorus/phaser/flanger/reverb variations available within the mixer DSPs. The idea was to use Live to complement mixer capabilities. Live delays, harmonizers, rhythm generators using LFOs, whatever you see there. I did give each mixer its own always-on Max-for-Live reverb, and put a compressor in front of the record track in Live to avoid the worst of the semi-unpredictable feedback explosions.

Before recording I experimented with cross-coupling the mixers into one feedback loop, but that lost me two independent voices with no sonic advantage. I also skipped working with Live-to-Live feedback. This setup was enough.

Listening in bed last night there was still one passage that felt like having all of my teeth drilled at once, but I cannot find it today with the same headphones and volume level. I had to do some level descaling and selective frequency band compression on the mixer+Live second half. There were some appropriate ugly sounds at the low- and high-end frequencies, but I'm afraid I stepped on them a little forcefully in the interest of preserving listeners' hearing.

Here is my soundtrack to the bullshit going on here today. Not a sonic Guernica , but with any luck we can avoid that level of trouble.


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the mixers
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chasing down dangerous tones in Adobe Audition
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DoxMeuser.png
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Our own Congressman Dan Meuser addressing his Proud Boy etc. fascist supporters at the PA Capitol just after the November election. May he rot in hell some day.
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DoxTheCoup2021.mp3
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Dox the Coup. Copyright 2021, Dale E. Parson, Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0), copy with attribution.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Dox the Coup
Subject description: Sonic response to attempted coup in U.S. Capitol 6 July 2021
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Acoustic Interloper wrote:
Not a sonic Guernica , but with any luck we can avoid that level of trouble.


It was very enjoyable, and for now you seem to have had a bit of luck too :)

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: Dox the Coup
Subject description: Sonic response to attempted coup in U.S. Capitol 6 July 2021
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Blue Hell wrote:
Acoustic Interloper wrote:
Not a sonic Guernica , but with any luck we can avoid that level of trouble.


It was very enjoyable, and for now you seem to have had a bit of luck too Smile

Thanks, Jan. Very Happy Back at school now, and busy as can be, but the mixers are still set up, will try to stay in shape for the next event. Cool

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L´Andratté



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think this is great stuff, very interesting sounds emerging, acoustic interloper!
I really enjoyed it.

In the process of building my own matrix mixer atm... Very Happy


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