A discussion of the symphonic poem

Jabbo · Joined: May 10, 2005 Posts: 11 Location: Rome

Pre: life is not a statement, perfection is for dictators and superficials, so what follows is not THE DIVINE TRUTH, but my idea, my opinion.

I'm sorry maybe I did not really explain myself:
meaning you were a State worker/composer in China meant you had to do that! otherwise you were "eliminated" because dangerous for the State.
The FACT that Europeans have a very superficial way of looking to comunism (Political ideology) as it has been applied through history(and not what Marx said in the Capital) doesn't mean I personally agree with Kapitalism.
It means that historically human societies struggle for life, and Dictatorship can be left AND right wing.
Rolling Eyes

For example soviet art of the beginning is great, Soviet art after Stalin is slaved.
In other words I agree with you on the points of "market based" composition and gear oriented, but I cannot tell that Mao is good, otherwise one ends up saying Hitler or Pol Pot (who let 20.000 people been killed in one night) were, in a certain sense, good people!

In my advice Culture as a compositional tool doesn't exist, but Culture as a compositional container does!
This means that hyper individualistic compositions are useless unless they have something understandable by a listener. And this is up to you and the relationship you have with your "reference culture" (wether you are pro, or against culture).
This, mainly, because BEAUTY is objective, not subjective, due to physical limitations such as the brain that cannot go faster than a certain speed (Hz of the CPU haha)so it univocates the results. Or your senses that are (if u are lucky) more or less the same from South Africa to Japan.
But on this Mr Cascone got it right, we live in mecha-civilizations, Nature is far in the background of our lives, especially if you live in a big city, so harmonical context has changed quite a lot!

On Max/MSP:
better many Max users, than millions of Fruityloop based musicians!
At least there is gonna be a GREAT MESS Twisted Evil

HAHAHAHA

mosc · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:33 am Post subject:

Jabbo · Joined: May 10, 2005 Posts: 11 Location: Rome

This is getting exciting!

I) Some people think "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder."

Yes this also true, I can agree on that, but then I make myself this question which lives on paradox, and I don't have an answer:
is a serial killer an artist?
Does he see beauty in his own eyes?

do I make my point here? It cannot be too individual, or yes?

II)I was trying to be aware of the "new" harmonics that we can listen in the mecha-society, referring to Kim Cascone's thought on Glitch music and the background of new music.
The topic is, in a certain sense, on Aesthetics , which is something I am really and profoundly in doubt, I almost don't sleep on this!
The symphonic poem is a big and serious question.
This means the more I talk about it the more I can listen to others' people thought, IN NO WAY PRETENDING TO IMPOSE what I think, which can indeed be bullshit, but first needs all kinds of questions and answers. So what is the musical form of our times?
Can I derive a general compsitional rule to acheive my aesthetical view (I don't think there is such a rule)?
What is the value of notation today? (which has indeed been discussed)
Microtones are interesting to explore too, for example.
Symphonic music is fantasic for its contrasts, from very low to very high, for the congruence of musical phrases that involve the listener in a world of sonic shapes clearly audible, or masked with incredible skill.
The guys in the past centuries found a SHAPE. Beware, an abstract shape that represented something very physical: Music. Well that's great! I mean they found something to discuss on! And this was clearly in reflection to an absolute world configured on the need of certainity, where time was this and space was that. Where Verdi meant musical vibrations and a hurray for political freedom of an enslaved country (am I clear here?).

III) I don't know what u use to make your music, the thing I like is listening when someone finds his own way to make music and I don't really care how, especially if the result is good (to my ears, maybe it is crap for someone else, or maybe it is crap for me and good for someone else), but to judge it I need some common code.
So I do appreciate Fruity loops users, not because they are fruityloops users, but because they do some good stuff!
But I must add that the humor of the sentence (and please excuse my excitement that underlead actually a strange path to my thoughts) lies in the mess of colours that could derive from a mass of users using Max/MSP. This doesn't imply that "colours/sounds" come only through this "source". I don't know if you ever used Max/MSP, but there are definetively more chances to make a big mess with millions of MSP users than the past, when it seemed to be something for "academics only". I personally like contrasts.

So I don't know if I have been clear, but it is very important (again for me) to understand the role of culture, because art is in part a reflection of society. I am searching for new patterns, If we are able to generate them, and how.

above all hugs! Wink

ciaciao

elektro80 · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:29 am Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 12:59 pm Post subject:

Kassen · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:28 am Post subject:

Kassen · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:53 am Post subject:

Kassen · Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:03 pm Post subject:

Oskar · Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway

Wout Blommers · Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:57 am Post subject:

I just started reading this thread and as always I want my thoughts as clear as they can be, so I wonder, reading the first four or five posts, is it common in the USA to spell 'Strawinski' with a 'v' instead of a 'w' or does the writer mean somebody else, in this case not the Russian composer Igor Strawinski, creator of 'La Sacre du Printemps' and other pieces of music? It does make the quotations a little obscure to me...

Wout

orczy · Joined: Mar 30, 2005 Posts: 161 Location: Australia

Wout Blommers · Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:05 am Post subject:

Well, you are excused, for sure, living in a country where Sea is spelled Zea... Just Joking!!!

Anyway, thanks, so now I can read the thread without any confusion, I hope Smile

Wout

orczy · Joined: Mar 30, 2005 Posts: 161 Location: Australia

ian-s · Posted: Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:17 pm Post subject:

The Dutch explorer, Able Tasman did name this land 'New Sealand', a typo back in Europe is responsible for the current spelling.
Just like our Rugby team was called the 'All Blakes' until an English typo turned them into the 'All Blacks'.

I like long white clouds, the gray one that has been raining on Auckland for the last three days I'm not so keen on.

Oskar · Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway

elektro80 · Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:27 am Post subject:

Yet another thread hijacked into schoomze territory by the highly motivated members of electro-music.com Laughing

Guys, you are making me proud.
Laughing

Anyways, feel free to stay on topic. Shocked

seraph · Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:41 am Post subject:

blue hell · Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:14 am Post subject:

Nieuw Zeeland would be correct nowadays.

In Abel's (we even spell that differently) time it probably was spelt like 'see' though (like in german, where it means 'lake' and not 'sea' btw), so Seelant I'd guess.

It's all a bit messy :-)

Jan.

Edit : New Zealand was originally given the name Statenland (something like 'state land') by Abel Jansz. Tasman I just read somewhere.

seraph · Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 10:35 am Post subject:

orczy · Joined: Mar 30, 2005 Posts: 161 Location: Australia

I have found a link between New Zealand and the symphonic poem! Or most famous ( ! ) composer, Douglas Lilburn composed many pieces about New Zealand, one being called "Aotearoa Overture". An overture in this time (1940's) could really be called a symphonic poem, as it wasn't an overture to anything (I may have to check that). Not a bad connection.

And yes, we did give those Lions a thrashing, 21-3 in the lovely rainy and haily Christchurch evening. I was in front of a very hot fire, under a blanket, much better than paying $300 to sit thee and freeze, I feel.

seraph · Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:14 pm Post subject:

dmosc · Joined: Jun 23, 2003 Posts: 298

I'll stay on topic, because this was one of the best reads on this forum! Anyway:

I love the ideas raised here, about music and the level of detail in the stimulus. I'd like to question the "detail" in other forms to put it in perspective. How much of my mood can you tell by my words? How much of my intent and drive shows up? Do the accents I say when I read these words myself show up when you do? Those are just the vagarities of written language. What about a photograph? Have you ever seen a picture of something that was taken in such a way that you couldn't tell what it was? A picture of an apple too close up, or a shadow/light picture that can be viewed two completely different ways. With pictures, if you take a picture of someone, can you tell what they're feeling? If you take a picture of them talking, can you tell what they're saying? My point from all this is that all forms of media are inherently vague so we should not critisize musical "imagery" simply for not being specific enough.

We should instead realize the amazing depth you CAN get from music. I feel like in some situations, sound can give a more detailed and vivid picture of the point in question than any other form. For instance, ode to joy. Could someone, no matter how musically illiterate, hear that piece and not thing it was about something happy? Lets go more metaphysical. How do we understand holst's idea of a planet nobody has ever seen or been to? This is really more a question of conveying thought than conveying detail. What better way could he do it than music?

Poetry, painting, essays, any form of communication will have limitations. Surely music is not unique in that. It however is uniquely gifted with the conveyance of unexplainable and unimagable emotion. More raw and rich than any word or picture could show.

This is also what I find as a common trend in the music I listen to. I need to hear a drive, a focus, an emotion. Sad, angry (angry is good), joyful, let me hear it! I struggle with the "listen to this cool sound, bet you weren't expecting that" and the "let your thoughts wander" stuff. I need a more firm direction and more clear intent from my music, be it punk or bach.

wow, I need to learn to spell, hope you could follow that...

Oskar · Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway