electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Jez Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Synthesized Piano (& Symphony Orch)
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 2 [34 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: Synthesized Piano (& Symphony Orch) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A while back I was milling around here and noticed a thread where people were tryng to synthesize an acoustic piano. I figured when I got around to synthesizing one I'd post an MP3 demo there but can't find the damn thread. So I'll just add mine to the mix in a new thread.

Following is a piano synthesized on the Arturia MMV (Moog Modular emulator) softsynth. It uses a synthesis method I created which I call fixed hardsync formant synthesis. In theory, the same sound could be patched up on a NM.

http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_Piano.mp3

Also, since I'm at it, following is a short demo of an entire symphony orch also synthesized on the MMV synth. I've been hard at work creating all the sections of the orch, including percussion, various keyboard instruments, and also celtic instruments. Both these demos are short tests done just a couple of hours ago just to see how the instruments mix together. I'll be hard at work doing many more and longer demos over the next week or so. The only outboard effects used were reverb and small amounts of EQ where needed.

http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_SymphonyIntro_Beethoven.mp3


-Elhardt

[note: Blue Hell: the arturia piano patch is here]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
Posts: 2564
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 600

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow

Amazing.

Are you doing these for Arturia?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SecretAsianMan



Joined: May 11, 2006
Posts: 36
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uhh, me likey!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fozzie



Joined: Jun 04, 2004
Posts: 875
Location: Near Wageningen, the Netherlands
Audio files: 8
G2 patch files: 49

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:48 am    Post subject: Re: Synthesized Piano (& Symphony Orch) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:
Following is a piano synthesized on the Arturia MMV (Moog Modular emulator) softsynth. It uses a synthesis method I created which I call fixed hardsync formant synthesis. In theory, the same sound could be patched up on a NM.


Could you give some more info on this specific 'fixed hardsync formant synthesis' technique? The meaning of hardsync is quite obvious, but maybe some elaboration on the technique in total, or some info on what parameters need the most elaborate tweaking?
The demo's are nice, but with some more info the NM(2) community could really benefit by learning new techniques. For example, how is the 'stringyness' of the sound achieved?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Axiom



Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Italy
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 28

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mmm is something like fixed formant FM but using osc hardsync?
i'm very curious Smile I'll try to figure out something when I'm at home tonight.

Cheers,
Luca

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen. Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kvnvk



Joined: Aug 27, 2006
Posts: 105
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

very, very nice. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
13rian



Joined: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 34
Location: NYC
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds very cool, will you be posting the patches so we can rebuild them with the NM?

Smile

- b
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Axiom



Joined: Feb 19, 2005
Posts: 288
Location: Italy
Audio files: 4
G2 patch files: 28

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ehehehe i'm pretty sure that he will not post any patch Wink Anyway... i will prefer even a little hint about his technique, so I can try to figure out by myself.

Cheers,
Luca

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen. Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dasz



Joined: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 1627
Location: vancouver, canada
Audio files: 29
G2 patch files: 56

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

are you the same elhardt of bahn sage fame?

http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2005/08/bahn-sage.html

/Dasz

_________________
http://www.clavia.se/misc/users/daszgarncarz.htm
http://haagenlive.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4504
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, he is and it will haunt him forever, I think.
Like as written above, Kenneth will never show a Patch...
There are always just mp3 files.

Wich doesn't mean these Patches don't exist, but there's no way to check this.

Wout
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tim Kleinert



Joined: Mar 12, 2004
Posts: 1017
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 6
G2 patch files: 211

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In my opinion -since these soundclips were (allegedly) done on the MMV and not the G2, and since Mr.Elhardt (as usual) will not share any detailed insights into his (hypothetical) synthesis techniques anyway -the relevance and purpose of his post here in the Nord Modular Discussion forum is zero.

Either he is here to have some fun misleading people again with another hoax, or he is just here to show off what he can pull off on a synthesis platform quite unrelated to the G2.

Whatever, dude. Please yourself. sleeping

tim
(back to patching his G2 and sharing patches and ideas)

_________________
beer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dasz



Joined: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 1627
Location: vancouver, canada
Audio files: 29
G2 patch files: 56

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
tim
(back to patching his G2 and sharing patches and ideas)


Great idea tim, I did the same today. I use a string osc fed by another osc which was getting wavewrapped, which yielded interesting results.
/Dasz

_________________
http://www.clavia.se/misc/users/daszgarncarz.htm
http://haagenlive.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
13rian



Joined: Sep 19, 2006
Posts: 34
Location: NYC
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well that ruins all the fun. if this post is shrouded in secrecy and has a good chance of being completely false, then it's not quite as interesting anymore. o well. back to tweaking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dasz



Joined: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 1627
Location: vancouver, canada
Audio files: 29
G2 patch files: 56

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
back to tweaking
-- that's the right attitude!
/Dasz

_________________
http://www.clavia.se/misc/users/daszgarncarz.htm
http://haagenlive.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17539
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I don't think preparing a fake synth brochure is all that bad. I've done the same myself - http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-1770.html - maybe not as well done. Very Happy

In my own defense, It was published on April 1st. Wink

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Tusker



Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For me, these kinds of demos and stories are valuable even if a cheat sheet is not provided. They serve to broaden my perspective on what is possible.

Jerry
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sebber



Joined: Aug 27, 2004
Posts: 451
Location: Berlin
G2 patch files: 31

PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-1770.html


You forgot to mention that the G2X+ features everything the Nord Electro has and that the + stands for "+sampling".

_________________
Fish don't swim. They dive.
For everything else: The Patcher's Toolbox
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the compliments from the earlier posts. I almost expected some of the typical ridiculous comments like those in the later ones. I posted the MP3 to show that a somewhat respectable piano sound can be obtained from a synth since as far as a know, to date, none have so far. At least none that have a wide enough range to play an actual piece of music on. It just requires thinking outside the box and to stop trying to rely on a crutch like PM techniques which aren't very controlable. I have no problem posting that particular patch, but since it's Arturia MMV and not Nord, I didn't expect most nor anybody to be able to load it. Just tell me where to post it and I'll put it there. Do I put it in the Nord section or is there an Arturia patch page I'm not aware of? And for those who have my Nord PianoCrash patch (how fast people forget that I have shared patches), this MMV piano patch can do that thing easily.

And I have to point out how goofy it is to think I can somehow generate actual audio sounds in an MP3 as if just by waving a magic wand. Obviously that piano sound comes from a synth, so how could it possibly be a fraud unless I'm lying about what synth it came from. Doesn't make any sense nor acheive any purposes. Those comments usually come from patch collectors who aren't interested in learning anything new anyway.

As for the technique, most of what you're hearing are hardsync'd oscillators as the sound sources, but they are detached from keyboard tracking (well actually in this case I let them track just by a small amount). The actual pitch of the note comes from the oscs they are sync'd to. This creates something like formants that are fixed even when the pitch is changed to a new note. However, when the pitch of those master oscs happens to line up at even octave intervals with the slave oscs, the hardsync sound unfortunately disappears, but since the sound is made up of 3 to 4 hardsync'd oscs at different freqs, the other remaining oscs hopefully cover up the deficient ones on those particular notes. The oscs are slightly detuned for a nice effect.

There is also quite a bit of tone shaping using the fixed filter bank, which on the MMV is really a equalizer. Since the MMV has no voltage controlled envelopes, had to best try to emulate the long sustaining lower notes and short sustaining upper notes by triggered by breaking the keyboard range into 3 sections and triggering different envelopes for those different ranges. The NM won't have that problem. Just pointing that out now for if somebody looks at my patch and wonders what's going on there. I also have a key thumping sound mixed in.

Normally I would try to create a second different patch to try to acheive more brightness from the sound without starting to sound synthetic, but I'm just barely able to acheive 12 voices of polyphony on the MMV. Don't want to knock that down by half or more because then it wouldn't make a very playable piano. Might one day try to move it to reactor. However the piano is the one and only sound I would probably use samples for for any serious recording. I did this MMV piano mostly as an experiment just to show that it can be done, and done with standard modules found on analog synths.

Here are a couple of more MP3 files with the MMV piano in them. In the second one I sacrified some realism for a bit more brightness. Every sound in them was synthesized on the Arturia Moog Modular. The first one should be played medium to medium quite, the second one should be played loud.

http://home.att.net/~synth6/Arturia_MMV_Orchestra_Rach.mp3

http://home.att.net/~synth5/Arturia_MMV_Orchestra_Grieg.mp3

I've got other demos of acoustic emulation on the MMV, but since they aren't piano related, I'll post them within the next few days on AH and elsewhere.

-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17539
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Amazing samples, as usual, Elhardt.

I could make an Arturia MMV sub forum under instrument and equipment. What is the file extension used for the patches? Each extension must be separately enabled; some kind of security precaution I suppose.

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4504
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:
... And for those who have my Nord PianoCrash patch (how fast people forget that I have shared patches), this MMV piano patch can do that thing easily. ...

As it seems it's not in the archives, here it is.

Wout


PianoCrash.pch
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  PianoCrash.pch
 Filesize:  1.45 KB
 Downloaded:  125 Time(s)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just to note, the Nord Piano Crash patch wasn't intended to be played as a piano as it doesn't sound like one. It's only purpose was to generate what sounds like a piano being dropped or somebody banging something down on the lower half of the keyboard. Audio demo here.

http://home.att.net/~elhardt3/Inside_The_Piano_Nord.mp3

-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I could make an Arturia MMV sub forum under instrument and equipment. What is the file extension used for the patches? Each extension must be separately enabled; some kind of security precaution I suppose.


The extension for my version 2.0 of MMV is ".amc". I believe somebody said that in an earlier version of MMV it is ".amb" if I remember correctly. You may want to include both of those.

-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dasz



Joined: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 1627
Location: vancouver, canada
Audio files: 29
G2 patch files: 56

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

can't wait Exclamation

good day for patching, tho ... although my headphones are not working well at the moment ... bad as this is my only amplification ...

but i know the headphones well .... well enough for mixing (as I know their range & response) ....
/Dasz

_________________
http://www.clavia.se/misc/users/daszgarncarz.htm
http://haagenlive.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Keysandslots



Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Posts: 265
Location: Mississauga, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:44 am    Post subject: Synthesized Piano (& Symphony Orch) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dasz, a bit off-topic but just in case you're thinking about new headphones, check out the Grado SR-325.

http://www.goodcans.com/HeadphoneReviews/gradobig3.htm

or

http://www.gradolabs.com/

I use these, very impressive (at least to my ears).

Randy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mosc
Site Admin


Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 17539
Location: Allentown, PA
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 60

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:

The extension for my version 2.0 of MMV is ".amc". I believe somebody said that in an earlier version of MMV it is ".amb" if I remember correctly.


Thanks. I included both of these to the allowable extension types and added a new sub forum for Arturia Synths to the Instruments and Equipment catagory. http://electro-music.com/forum/forum-142.html

_________________
--Howard
my music and other stuff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Nord Modular Editors
Page 1 of 2 [34 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
mps board

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use