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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Thomas Henry designs
The GM Voice
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
The DB60XG is basically
a DB50XG with the SW60XG's additional capabilities to add
(individually-programmable) effects processing to each mixer source
(wave, line-in, mic, cd, as well as midi). The SW60XG's AD Mixer
section is removed from the DB60XG, and instead connected (through the
waveblaster connector) to the 3D's mixer. That makes sense if you really
think about it, there is no need to have the SW60XG's AD mixer on the
daughtercard since all soundboards I know of already have a mixer.

i start to wonder if the daughterboard has an analogue audio input at all. maybe the A/D conversion is done on the motherboard (which provides the actual audio mixer for the PC)... could this be?

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THeff



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The fact that pins 12 & 16 have identical connections and paths to the the AK-4510 IC still makes me think that they are left and right analog audio inputs. I have tried to get a datasheet on the AK-4510 but have been unsuccessful so far. Here is another box built around the DB60XG http://www.digsys.bg/eunetweb/lucho/ I tried sending him an email last night but it was kicked back.

Tim
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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

THeff wrote:
The fact that pins 12 & 16 have identical connections and paths to the the AK-4510 IC still makes me think that they are left and right analog audio inputs.

OTOH what sense would make a second A/D converter on the daughterboard as there is one on the motherboard? we don't know yet.

Quote:
I have tried to get a datasheet on the AK-4510 but have been unsuccessful so far.

me too.

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THeff



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One of the web IC suppliers states that the AK4510 is a "3V 16BIT ADC&DAC WITH BUILT-IN PGA". Still no datasheet though!

Tim
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THeff



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:50 pm    Post subject: DB60XG Demo Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello All,

After all of the discussion about analog inputs I figured I would think about something else and upload a demo of the DB60XG with the GM Voice interface. The MIDI file is an XG specific file that I downloaded a number of years ago. The name of the file is Matrix01.mid, and I think it does a good job at highlighting the great sound of the DB50/60XG cards.

Also, I thought it might help to mention the current consumption of each one of the power supplies if you are interested in using the DB60XG.

Here are the currents that I measured for each supply including the GM Voice interface:

+5 Volts = 310mA
+12 Volts = 50mA
-12 Volts = 10mA

To test the card out I am using some bench power supplies and not the GM Voice regulator PCB. To use the GM Voice power supply board will probably require cutting a trace and inserting a 13 ohm 3 Watt resistor in between the +12V regulator output and the input to the +5V regulator. This will lower the input voltage to the +5V reg. to about 8 Volts and reduce the total power dissipation of the regulator.

Regards,

Tim


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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:54 pm    Post subject: Re: DB60XG Demo Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

THeff wrote:
Here are the currents that I measured for each supply including the GM Voice interface:

+5 Volts = 310mA
+12 Volts = 50mA
-12 Volts = 10mA

great. thank you for these measurements. they will help me finding the appropriate PSU for my triple GM-voice...

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gfloreza



Joined: Nov 03, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:53 am    Post subject: DB60XG Pinout
Subject description: Old Player Schematics
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Here I send you all, the schematics of an old commercial Midi player (I don't remember the name).

The good news is that it has the complete pinout of the wavetable, and curiously it works with -8 and +8 volts, instead of -12 and +12 volts. The proyect itself only needs 5 volts, and then converts to the desired voltages.

It has also a pream for the A/D ins, and a Midi out if the card supports it.

I hope it would help you all.

Gflorez


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gfloreza



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:14 am    Post subject: More about DB60XG
Subject description: QS300 voices on DB60XG?
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Wherever I look for information about DB60XG, they all say (theory I suppose), it lacks the QS300 voices his brother the DB50XG has.

In that page:http://www.abacom.com/~ivanohe/studio/studio_e.html, Yves says other thing about it (practicce I suppose).

He speaks about a "Hidden Mode" in his DB60XG Known as "QS300".

I have two DB50XGs and want to buy a NEC XR385 to see its better characteristics, less hangs, and over all the mentioned A/D ins.

Thanks to all.
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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thank you very much for posting this. great. now we know the db60xg definetely provides analogue inputs.
funny, the db60xg is powered by +/-8V in this case (there are no 8V rails in a PC system, are they?

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gfloreza



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:10 am    Post subject: More about DB60XG Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Max864 converts to +8 and -8 volts from +5V.

Only 5 volts is needed, as that compsumption is very low (only for the internal amplifiers of the wavetable).

Gflorez
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THeff



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:08 am    Post subject: There's still hope for inputs on the DB60XG! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks gfloreza,

The schematic is very helpful and confirms the inputs as Fonik said. I searched for the XG Gold editor and found these two links.

http://www.midiweb.de/main/pro/yamaha/gold/gold_e.htm

http://www.cybertown.com/gold_e.html

I guess we still need to find out how to enable the A/D ports on pins 12 & 16.

Tim
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Dan Lavin



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So now we know that all pins but 2 and 13 are used on the db60xg. I thought the midi out on pin 8 was unnecessary, but if you want to do System, Part, etc bulk data dumps, you'd definitely need a midi out on these devices.

The choice for the +/-8Volts is a little curious to me. I mean, you need quite a bit of power in for the +5V line, so there's no way to run this off batteries. I suppose it makes the input wall wart requirements simpler: a common 9VDC/500mA one ought to do it.

When Thomas and I worked on this 10 years ago, we were wondering if we couldn't just use his standard +/-15V power supply requirements, but backed off to the prescribed +/-12V due to the number of daughterboard manufacturers. We played it safe.
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gfloreza



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:24 am    Post subject: more on DB60XG Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

On http://www.studio4all.de/htmle/main96.html, Werner says:

"The default XG volume setting for the A/D Parts is 0 - so you'll need to adjust the volume settings after the activation of an A/D Part."

Then I think that a part must be ativated:

F0,43,10,49,01,00,00,01,F7. (part 1 I suppose or the two).

Once actvated, pull up the volume:

F0,43,10,4C,10,00,0B,40,F7. (40h or 64d is the midle)(part 1).

Is this correct?

Can some of you probe this on the real thing?

Thanks.

Gflorez
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gfloreza



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:34 am    Post subject: more on DB60XG Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

antman49443 says:

" I thought the midi out on pin 8 was unnecessary, but if you want to do System, Part, etc bulk data dumps, you'd definitely need a midi out on these devices. "


Yes is unnecesary as in theory none of the Yamaha Wavetable boards supports Midi out, but is interesting to other makers boards that could own it. I don't have that information.


Gflorez
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THeff



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi gfloreza,

I believe I tried both of those SYSEX commands already, but I will try them again. The web site with these commands is confusing because it says that the Model ID for the DB60XG is 49. It's not clear whether the DB60XG with take all of the commands just by setting the ID to 49. The second command you listed shows 4C.

Regards,

Tim
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gfloreza



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:08 am    Post subject: More about DB60XG Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If you read the manual of the DB50XG you can see that the card accepts other IDs, begining from the TG300, QS300, Roland GS, XG native(4C) commands... It is four sintetizers in one. Its brother the DB60XG has to maintain some of the commands plus some more about the A/D parts.

Don't change the IDs to the messages as the board understands they good as they are.

The command are mapped inside the board to emulate other sints, but the XG module (4C) is native. (some messages are missing).

Try to download the "Yamaha XG format Specification".

XG is hard to understand at the begining.(I'm too at the begining!)

Gflorez
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THeff



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just found this web site with a lot of XG related files. Look near the bottom under Yamaha XG Support.

http://www.megatrade.ru/English/Yamaha_Support.html

Regards,

Tim
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THeff



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: DB50XG info Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is one of the best documents I have found concerning the DB50XG.


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THeff



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:54 pm    Post subject: ANALOG INPUT WORKING! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi gfloreza,

It works!!! Laughing You were correct. I'm not sure what I did wrong Rolling Eyes the first time, but the SYSEX commands below will enable the analog inputs on the DB60XG.

1.) F0 43 10 49 01 00 00 01 F7 - (A/D 1 & 2 PART ON)

2.) F0 43 10 4C 10 01 0B 64 F7 - (RIGHT CH. FULL VOLUME - PIN 12)

3.) F0 43 10 4C 10 00 0B 64 F7 - (LEFT CH. FULL VOLUME - PIN 16)

I have also successfully tested the chorus and reverb with these commands:

4.) F0 43 10 4C 10 00 12 64 F7 - (FULL CHORUS ON RIGHT CH.)

5.) F0 43 10 4C 10 00 13 64 F7 - (FULL REVERB ON RIGHT CH.)

Thanks again gfloreza for posting the schematic and encouraging me to try the SYSEX commands again!

Regards,

Tim
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Dan Lavin



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim, gfloreza,

You guys are my heroes! This brings new life into this project! Even if folks out there aren't interested in the XG synth, the FX section will blow them away! I've used the amp simulator and overdrive to make some very good power guitar stuff and I love using the pitch shifter on my voice.

Our friend in Shanghai is still selling the db60xg clones on ebay for US$25+US$15 shipping to the US...I'm guessing it would be similarly priced to Canada, Europe or Australia.

Thanks guys!, Dan
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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow!
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gfloreza



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:09 am    Post subject: DB60XG has QS300 voices? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi THeff.

It was only an utopia, and now is true!

I´ve searching for years information about XG, and rummors about what can do and what can't do with an DB60XG.

On the other side, it is said that both the DB51XG and the DB60XG lack the QS300 Voices their brother the DB50XG has.

Have you intented to edit that voices with XGGold?

Gflorez
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THeff



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi gfloreza,

There's seems to be a lot of misinformation floating around about the DB50XG and the DB60XG, as far as the capabilities of each. I'm even wondering if the DB50XG has analog inputs too. The MU10 is supposed to be a DB50XG in a module form factor and it has inputs. Someone with a DB50XG should try it and see.

Note: The DB comes up in mono mode so you need to send:

F0 43 10 4C 11 00 00 01 F7 - For stereo mode.

Correction: The commands below that I showed earlier should designate the Left channel since NN=00 (NN=01 - Right)

4.) F0 43 10 4C 10 00 12 64 F7 - (FULL CHORUS ON RIGHT CH.)

5.) F0 43 10 4C 10 00 13 64 F7 - (FULL REVERB ON RIGHT CH.)

I used XGEDIT95 for editing last night and it works very well. I downloaded it from the Megatrade web site. I want to try XGGold too but have not installed it yet.

Regards,

Tim
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gfloreza



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject: DB60XG and others Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello all.

In this link: (https://vsr.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de/twiki/bin/view/Sonstiges/WaveTableSoundCards) is a list of ISA or PCI cards or other things, that admits daugtherboards, and a list of them.

Gflorez
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gfloreza



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:23 am    Post subject: Mic or Line on DB60XG? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Then, for the input of a mic, is necesary a preamp?

I have a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz and I've planed to hack it a bit with the "on the way" NEC clone.

On the other side, the DB50XG, doesn't have the A/D parts, as I've inspected the board intensively.

It has a MIDI out lead but... it is said that is canceled internaly!

Could be... that an unknown exclusive message makes a memory dump?


Another utopia.

Gflorez
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