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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
The Threeler
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ENDIF



Joined: Jul 14, 2006
Posts: 138
Location: Reno, NV

PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

!!??
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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: schematics removed Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
Probably too late, though. dunno


It's pretty tough to put the Genie back in the bottle, Ian....
sorry you see the need to try.

I hope you will continue to share your ideas.

bruce
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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: update Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been looking into possibly modifying the filter to also work as an autonomous chaos generator. I thought at first that this would be fairly easy, but the difference between having three lo pass stages in a loop vs three integrators is more problematic than I thought it would be. I spent most of the last three days going up and down various blind alleys, but now I think I have a method of getting to the standard jerk equations. Hopefully, I will get something working in the next couple of days. If I don't have any good ideas at that point, I'll have to give up finalize the circuit as a filter.

If any of the regulars here need the schematics I took down, please PM me and I will send them to you.

Very Happy

Ian
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drapdap



Joined: Oct 11, 2004
Posts: 194
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:27 am    Post subject: Re: update Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:


If any of the regulars here need the schematics I took down, please PM me and I will send them to you.

Very Happy

Ian


i saved your drawing a couple of days ago, somehow i had a suspicious thought, that you will do such a thing,
so it is somehow understandable, yes, defend your work, before it begans to surface as the doepfer super-extreme filter modul.
still, i'd like to try to get on with this, is the 3280 interchangeable with an LM13700, or it's way off characterwise? 3280's are very expensive over here.

robert
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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: update Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

drapdap wrote:

so it is somehow understandable, yes, defend your work, before it begans to surface as the doepfer super-extreme filter modul.
still, i'd like to try to get on with this, is the 3280 interchangeable with an LM13700, or it's way off characterwise? 3280's are very expensive over here.

Yeah, Dieter is always a potential problem. I wonder if he trolls around here?

You can use a 13700, but you need to change the design. They are not interchangable. I understand that Futurlec is still selling the 3280.

Very Happy

Ian
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Etaoin



Joined: Jun 30, 2005
Posts: 760
Location: Utrecht, NL

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:28 am    Post subject: Re: update Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
I understand that Futurlec is still selling the 3280.


Yes, I received mine today. Harris ones datecode 0011.

They also sell the OPA2134 and DG409 (which I forgot to order).

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dar303



Joined: Jul 15, 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:57 am    Post subject: Re: update Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
drapdap wrote:

so it is somehow understandable, yes, defend your work, before it begans to surface as the doepfer super-extreme filter modul.
still, i'd like to try to get on with this, is the 3280 interchangeable with an LM13700, or it's way off characterwise? 3280's are very expensive over here.

Yeah, Dieter is always a potential problem. I wonder if he trolls around here?

You can use a 13700, but you need to change the design. They are not interchangable. I understand that Futurlec is still selling the 3280.

Very Happy

Ian


Patent it! Propably hard to justify the cost adn time to do that but it would be nice to have such an idea protected.
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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:29 am    Post subject: still hackin Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Finally, I managed to get an autonomous chaos generator based on a 3d order low pass filter to work. Not actually with the Threeler, but with a simple non-tunable version. It required tapping all three filter stages and feeding them back to the input along with the nonlinear function generator.

The math: The outputs of each of the three filter stages is calculated in terms of the final-stage output. Then a general weighted sum of these is written down mathematically along with the required nonlinearity. This sum is compared term-by-term with the third order differential equation of the chaos system. This gives a set of simple algebraic equation for the weighting coefficients. Once the coefficients are known a standard opamp implementation of the multiple-feedback circuit is easy to design.

I started with a textbook jerk equation with a sgn(x) nonlinearity. It took some careful tweaking of circuit parameters, but I got a nice variable double scroll chaos pattern.

Next I'm going to try the system given in fig 2 b in this reference:
http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~chua/papers/Elwakil02.pdf
I've never seen anything quite like this before, so it will be fun to try. The challenge is going to be to find a way to vary the pattern -- it's not clear that the single parameter in the system will do that.

Stay tuned.

Very Happy

Ian
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:57 am    Post subject: Re: update Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etaoin wrote:
frijitz wrote:
I understand that Futurlec is still selling the 3280.


Yes, I received mine today. Harris ones datecode 0011.

They also sell the OPA2134 and DG409 (which I forgot to order).


etaoin i found cheap 2134's from here
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160206315487
i think the shop is closed at the moment but should be back up soon

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Etaoin



Joined: Jun 30, 2005
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Location: Utrecht, NL

PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I'm currently wrestling with the PCB design anyway so I won't be needing any that soon.
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softfin



Joined: Oct 11, 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etaoin wrote:
Well, I'm currently wrestling with the PCB design anyway so I won't be needing any that soon.


If you come up with a good layout (heck, almost any will do Smile) I would be interested to test it !

I bought some ca3280s some months ago just in case I'd need them some day and this seems like a project that is worth putting some of them into use!

Great design, btw, thanks Ian!
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Etaoin



Joined: Jun 30, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, this design would be for my own personal use (single sided so I can etch it myself). I won't be distributing anything without Ian's permission.
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was able to get the new chaos system working with a third order filter (not the Threeler). It doesn't look quite like the published picture, but pretty interesting. I'll try hooking it up to the Threeler today and, time permitting, try to make a little demo.

Very Happy

Ian
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etaoin wrote:
Well, this design would be for my own personal use (single sided so I can etch it myself). I won't be distributing anything without Ian's permission.

Thanks. I'm planning on doing a board, and I'll be looking for someone else to distribute it for me, as that part has been frustrating. Any ideas as to a possible distributor would be appreciated.

Very Happy

Ian
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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks to everyone who has suggested possible distributors. I've already picked who I will be working with, so I won't be needing any more suggestions.

Very Happy

Ian
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Coriolis



Joined: Apr 11, 2005
Posts: 616
Location: Stilling, Denmark

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Err...so will this be a chaos circuit, a 3rd order filter...or both?

C
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loss1234



Joined: Jul 24, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow a new board from ian??

this is good news!!
and with the buchla board, the hopeful new order of klees and the next batch of fonik resonators, this is going to be a good next few months!!!

maybe i will just do an album with all ians circuits Wink

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frijitz



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Coriolis wrote:
Err...so will this be a chaos circuit, a 3rd order filter...or both?

What would you like? I'm thinking a filter with the chaos section as optional. Since the chaos is just extra feedback that is switched in, it can be left off without affecting the filter!

Very Happy

Ian
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Coriolis



Joined: Apr 11, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, the original soundclips in this thread sounded mighty good (nicer filter sounds certainly) and I'm always up for a cicuit that does more than one thing... Very Happy

C
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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Excellent! I'll take two! cyclops


frijitz wrote:
Coriolis wrote:
Err...so will this be a chaos circuit, a 3rd order filter...or both?

What would you like? I'm thinking a filter with the chaos section as optional. Since the chaos is just extra feedback that is switched in, it can be left off without affecting the filter!

Very Happy

Ian
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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Please, good people. Thanks for the interest, but there is no need to ask for these ahead of time. There will be an announcement when boards are ready. It won't be for a while -- I haven't even finished the final tweaking!

Very Happy

Ian
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v-un-v
Janitor
Janitor


Joined: May 16, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott Stites wrote:
I'm impressed as hell!


You're not the only one!

Great filter Ian Very Happy

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Coriolis



Joined: Apr 11, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ian, don't hurry more than you have to - I'm always lusting for boards, but I'm also always broke... Laughing

C
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loss1234



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:18 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah for me its always a compromise between having money but no time or plenty of time (due to no clients) but no money.

i must admit i prefer weeks i get little work because then i can make circuits all day (but my wife does not prefer such a situation!!!)

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bridechamber



Joined: Oct 06, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello folks!

The Bridechamber now has PCBs for the Threeler! And we have the odd parts, too. Check it out at www.bridechamber.com

We've also got ChaQuO, 5Pulser, TGTSH, Double Well and Jerkster boards.

Happy building, and many thanks to Ian -- they're all his work!
Scott



dot removed Very Happy - v-un-v/ janitor
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