Net Cries Out for Madrid

seraph · Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:17 am Post subject: Net Cries Out for Madrid

The Net saw a huge outpouring of sympathy and concern Thursday for victims of the day's train bombings in Madrid.

seraph · Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:22 am Post subject:

Spanish language sounds so gentle, to me, that it does not seem well suited to talk about "terroristas". That's very sad Sad

seraph · Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:41 am Post subject:

The Madrid bombing remainded me of this article:

Kruge · Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 3:51 pm Post subject:

About Madrid (and similar places):

I *do* understand that some ppl believe that violence is their last and only chance to be heard.

BUT:

Even if I might understand what lead to deeds like this: There simply is NO EXCUSE AT ALL for what those assholes did. Killing and injuring masses of innocent people like in Madrid can't be excused with ANYTHING!

Imagine being torn out of your life by wittnessing something like this...

I am, generally, against violence - even though I myself am some kind of choleric sometimes. But don't ask me what I, in person, would and probaply *could* do to someone who did something like this. Sad

Even though I'm an atheist I do believe that there's a lot of tings out there much bigger than mankind - and terrorists like those in Madrid simply work against EVERYTHING I myself believe in...

mosc · Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 7:39 pm Post subject:

Ironic. You say you are an atheist and you are appalled by this violence. Most people into kill innocent people claim to be religious. Shocked

Kruge · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:20 am Post subject:

Exactly - actually that's one of the reasons that had me start thinking about the whole thing in the beginning:

Why would ANY god create something like this?

I mean: I can understand (again) why ppl want to *believe* in a great being, a creator, some sense or plan behind everything, nothing wrong with that!

Where I really get problems is when some of those ppl think it's *their* responsibility to judge what *everybody* *else* believes in, as if they don't believe their god can handle this...

And worse: Those idiots (to choose a mild word) actually believe that their god (Jahwe, Jehova, Allah or whatever) WANTS THEM to create hell on earth?!?!? I BEG YOUR PARDON????

Why should any god create beings with a free will just to punish them if they don't believe in the right thing?

If there *is* a god (and I'm wrong) I'm pretty sure that *specially* those fanatics will get their very own and private hell...

PS: Lurking through newsgroups I've learned that a lot of ... let's call them "believers" can't understand that even atheists like me can actually believe in something:

I *do* believe that mankind can become much 'better' than it's acting right now (and was acting all the times). I *do* believe that there are things bigger than mankind - not a god or any other creative force but simply THINGS - like: "Let's try to make this world a better place for the ppl coming after us".

I, personally, don't need the promise of a paradise after death just to be as nice as I can to ppl.

Granted: Quite often I *am* an asshole, but that's why I said "as nice as I *can*". ;o)

Oh - and I even believe in some kind of "life after death":

Remember Mozart, Shakespeare, Einstein, Tolkien or Newton?

*EXACTLY*!

Man *can* create things, ideas, music, art or words that live on *long* after they're gone. And the fact that - even if I won't know it, since I'll be GONE - maybe my music might live on gives me some kind of satisfaction right *NOW*. Smile

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

Kruge · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:25 am Post subject:

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

Incidentally, one can easily make the case against violence whether from a moral/spiritual/theological standpoint or a scientific/rational/mathematical standpoint. Nobody has a monopoly on morality.

Also, if I may make an interesting suggestion to those who may approach the following subject from a dismissive standpoint...

I saw The Passion today, and all personal opinions aside, allow me to make a suggestion to non-Christians out there concerning this movie. If you do decide to see it, there is something to be said for watching it in the context of, say, David Koresh. It's a great illustiration of what unjust authority tends to do to those in such positions of defiance.

The violence we are witness to in Spain, and Israel and elsewhere, is the other way around. Those use violence against what they consider to be unjust authority. Ghandi did not do this. Jesus did not do this. Koresh was not doing this.

Agressive violence itself invalidates the cause it is serving, regardless of the names, and regardless of who wins. Defense is, of course, one thing, but who were the acts of violence in Spain defending? In NYC? In Ireland? In Sierra Leone? In the Crusades? In the Spanish Inquisition? In Iraq?

Kruge · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:42 am Post subject:

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

Would I be at least somewhat correct in asserting that there is something about artists that tends to lend us a greater understanding of this concept than other people?

Also of interest, perhaps, is that these bombings took place 911 days after the attacks of 9/11.

play · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:25 am Post subject:

Kruge · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 3:38 am Post subject:

play · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 4:09 am Post subject:

what would constitute "a better world" ?

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

A world without sports.

Kruge · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:17 am Post subject:

What would make a "better world"?

Ok, let's see:

Fewer hunger and sicknesses...

Fewer wars about stuff that the simple folks don't really care about...

Fewer murders and crimes claimed to be in the will of a great, invisible being...

Completely irreal, I know - but sometimes I do dream about mankind actually able to *learn* out of history...

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

paul e. · Posted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 2:29 pm Post subject:

Completely irreal

hey, a new word hehehe

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:18 am Post subject:

hehe... new words are kool!

When it comes to this kind of terror we have seen in Madrid.. this is what one might call an attempt at destabilizing. It happens just before the election. The IRA bomb attacks in England during the 70s were nothing like this.. destabilizing is something else. And this is exactly what is going on in Iraq right now too. I suspect we will see more of this all over the world. Destabilizing can be done using structural warfare too. If this new enemy truly is a group of religious fanatics attacking the evil excesses of the infidel capitalist western world, I guess the terrorists will attack transportation of goods soon.. in order to affect world trade. I am really wondering about the aganeda of these crazy guys.

Kruge · Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 3:22 am Post subject:

"Irreal" isn't an English word? My mistake. It is, actually a German word, translating as "not real/possible".

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

The powers that be are trying to WTC the EU. Piece by piece. Is it any wonder that this took place 911 days after 9/11? What an insult to the intelligence of common people.

mosc · Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:37 am Post subject:

seraph · Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 10:39 am Post subject:

according to the Merriam-Webster Online site the word IRREAL does exist:

One entry found for irreal.
Main Entry: ir·re·al
Pronunciation: i-'rE(-&)l, "i(r)-, -'ri(-&)l
Function: adjective
: not real
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=irreal&x=17&y=13

mosc · Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 11:07 am Post subject:

Interesting press reactions to the Socialists winning the Spainish elections. On the main right-wing media media in the US the message last night was pretty much "Terrorism wins in Spain." The emphasis was that a week before the bombing polls showed the conservitives with a sure-fire vistory. After the terrorists, the people gutlessly dumped the pro-USA government in order to appease the terrorists.

I listened to the BBC World Service last night and got a different impression from Spainish journalists they interviewed. Apparently, the polls before the bombing showed support for the conservative party, the so-called "Popular" party, waning. They said the people were outraged that the government was trying to blame the bombings on ETA terrorists and not Al Quaeda. There was strong revulsion to the government lying about this and the WMD in Iraq.

I guess there is some truth to both sides of the story.

zynthetix · Posted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:35 pm Post subject:

And I guess theres also some falsity to both sides of the story...
*skeptic* Rolling Eyes