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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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 Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:09 am Post subject:
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| unit-sound wrote: |
c) to get it right, the amount jack is a _normalizing_ jack while the Rate Jack is a stereo jack ?
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No, the Amount jack is a normalized *stereo* (TRS) jack.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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asafnetzer
Joined: Jun 16, 2007
Posts: 112
Location: Israel
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:17 am Post subject:
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Hello,
A question about the LDR's, I have found a source of M996011b, would they be ok instead of the M996011a ?
Thanks,
Asaf |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:45 am Post subject:
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| asafnetzer wrote: | Hello,
A question about the LDR's, I have found a source of M996011b, would they be ok instead of the M996011a ?
Thanks,
Asaf |
They are not the same.
Your phasing range will be different - you can experiment with different capacitor values, too.
It might give intersting results - but not teh same as with the A types.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 875
Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 5
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject:
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Hello Jürgen,
i made my panel after this one:
I have a bypass button, a bypass jack and a Manual/auto switch on my panel
But when looking to the schematics i see only one switch connector.
1. i assume "switch" is the jack . is then the manual switch normalised to this jack ?
2. what for is Manual/auto ?
3. i have something too much, i'm confused.......
normalising the bypassbutton to the bypass jack ? but then:what wiring to the button ?
uhh, 4. I must solder the LDRs in, is the darkening of them critical.
I think to the bottom of the PCB. important to tape it there also very proper ? |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject:
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| Funky40 wrote: |
But when looking to the schematics i see only one switch connector.
1. i assume "switch" is the jack . is then the manual switch normalised to this jack ? |
No - the jack and the manual switch are simply connected in parallel.
These *must* be momentary action switches ("Taster" in German) - each momentary shorting of the two contacts will make the circuit *toggle* between active and bypass.
| Quote: | | 2. what for is Manual/auto ? |
Auto is LFO modulation - Manual is manual sweep (LFO disabled, and "Phasing/Amplitude" works as manual sweep control.)
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 875
Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 5
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| Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject:
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Thank you Jürgen,
it is running 
but no remote jacks or switches installed so far |
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2thick4uni
Joined: Feb 20, 2009
Posts: 113
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:02 pm Post subject:
Source of 7volt bulbs? |
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I've managed to source LDR's ok (which I thought would be hardest to find) but struggling to find a source for suitable 7V bulbs. I'm in the UK but anyone that will ship to the uk is Ok by me.
I tried the link to http://www.elektronica-online.com/target/content_details.php?id=5428 but it appears to be broken. I had a look on www.elektronica-online.com but my command of Dutch is poor to say the least and I couldn't work out how to search for the bulbs let alone order them.
Any help most gratefully received  |
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2thick4uni
Joined: Feb 20, 2009
Posts: 113
Location: UK
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject:
Re: 7v bulbs |
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Yes, they look great!
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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moosapotamus
Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 113
Location: New Hampshire USA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:12 pm Post subject:
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I am finally starting to work on getting my krautrocker built! 
I've got everything except the bulb sockets, LDRs and off-board wiring done on the PCB. I plan to house it in a large hand made aluminum enclosure that a very good friend gave me, a la stompbox stylee.
A few questions...
1)
There have been a couple of comments regarding CV input via modifying the amount jack. Personally, given the choice between either amount or CV input, I would much rather have a CV input. Jürgen suggested this...
| jhaible wrote: |
Well, the jacks for remote control do *not* accept CVs. (You need insulated jacks, and the sleeve is not grounded!) That's not elegant, but close to the original with its multi-function DIN jack.
Nevertheless, you *should* be able to feed a CV into the *Tip* of a TRS plug into the AMOUNT jack, with Sleeve and Ring both *unconnected*, and a connection of the Phaser's signal GND to the GND of the CV-producing device. The interesting CV range will be about 0V ... +10V in that case.
This is completely untested - yet.
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If I'm interpreting correctly, modifying the schematic would look something like this... In which case a tip/sleeve plug/cord from the CV-producing device to the CV input would work?
2)
Is there a way to adjust the symmetry of the sweep? The clips I've listened to seem to sweep under the low point much faster than sweeping over the high point. To my ear the result is that the effect is primarily noticable when sweeping under the low point and when sweeping over the high point there is very little audible phasing effect to be heard. I'm guessing that the LFO waveform is some sort of hyper-triangle that is supposed to be desirable in phasers, flangers, etc... But I find myself wishing that the sweep over the top was quicker so that the phasing is audible throughout the entire sweep range. Can this be adjusted using the low lim and range trim pots? Or something else, maybe?
Thanks
~ Charlie
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:08 am Post subject:
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| moosapotamus wrote: |
If I'm interpreting correctly, modifying the schematic would look something like this... In which case a tip/sleeve plug/cord from the CV-producing device to the CV input would work?
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Yes, that should work.
| Quote: |
Is there a way to adjust the symmetry of the sweep? The clips I've listened to seem to sweep under the low point much faster than sweeping over the high point. To my ear the result is that the effect is primarily noticable when sweeping under the low point and when sweeping over the high point there is very little audible phasing effect to be heard. I'm guessing that the LFO waveform is some sort of hyper-triangle that is supposed to be desirable in phasers, flangers, etc... But I find myself wishing that the sweep over the top was quicker so that the phasing is audible throughout the entire sweep range. Can this be adjusted using the low lim and range trim pots? Or something else, maybe?
Thanks
~ Charlie |
You can make some adjustment with R21, but all in all that special kind of sweeping is typical for the Compact A, its faithful reproduction is achieved by choice of the right incandescent lamp and LDRs - so any change from that ideal would probably mean experimenting with different lamps and LDRs. For a general approach on arbitrary LFO shapes, I recommend using an "all-electronic" phaser like the TAU or a Moog Phaser, or something similar.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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moosapotamus
Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 113
Location: New Hampshire USA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:52 pm Post subject:
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| jhaible wrote: |
Yes, that should work.
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Thanks!
| jhaible wrote: |
For a general approach on arbitrary LFO shapes, I recommend using an "all-electronic" phaser like the TAU or a Moog Phaser, or something similar.
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Yeah, I have a mooger phaser. Love the sweep on that, and I've used the LFO out on more than one occasion.  I also have the Tau PCB, so that will be next.
Thanks
~ Charlie
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numbertalk
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 992
Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:15 am Post subject:
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| jhaible wrote: | | IMO, the only reason to try other opamps than the 741 is to find out how it sounds without slew limiting. (Which means nothing else than the circuit distorts earlier for high frequencies than for low and midrange frequencies.) That kind of behaviour is part of the original Schulte Compact A - that's why I specified 741 opamps. |
Wondering if you could clarify "Which means nothing else than the circuit distorts earlier for high frequencies than for low and midrange frequencies" - is this the behavior *with* the slew limiting from the 741s or would this be the behavior *without* slew limiting?
Also when you mention mod slewing as one of the principle unique characteristics of the Compact Phasing, is this how this is mainly heard in the circuit - this frequency-based distortion/non-distortion?
I built this a while ago, just revisiting the thread since I've learned more about circuits to try to understand better how this phaser works exactly.
Thanks. |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:34 pm Post subject:
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| numbertalk wrote: | | jhaible wrote: | | IMO, the only reason to try other opamps than the 741 is to find out how it sounds without slew limiting. (Which means nothing else than the circuit distorts earlier for high frequencies than for low and midrange frequencies.) That kind of behaviour is part of the original Schulte Compact A - that's why I specified 741 opamps. |
Wondering if you could clarify "Which means nothing else than the circuit distorts earlier for high frequencies than for low and midrange frequencies" - is this the behavior *with* the slew limiting from the 741s or would this be the behavior *without* slew limiting? |
The former.
| Quote: | Also when you mention mod slewing as one of the principle unique characteristics of the Compact Phasing, is this how this is mainly heard in the circuit - this frequency-based distortion/non-distortion?
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From the 741's specs, slew limiting *must* occur at high levels and high frequencies. I like it as it is - whether for, or despite this effect, I don't know. Normally I don't run it at such high levels anyway.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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numbertalk
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 992
Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject:
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Thanks for the clarification.
One more thing, though - the levels/frequencies mentioned in this case, is this in regards to the LFO signal or the audio signal?
| jhaible wrote: | | numbertalk wrote: | | jhaible wrote: | | IMO, the only reason to try other opamps than the 741 is to find out how it sounds without slew limiting. (Which means nothing else than the circuit distorts earlier for high frequencies than for low and midrange frequencies.) That kind of behaviour is part of the original Schulte Compact A - that's why I specified 741 opamps. |
Wondering if you could clarify "Which means nothing else than the circuit distorts earlier for high frequencies than for low and midrange frequencies" - is this the behavior *with* the slew limiting from the 741s or would this be the behavior *without* slew limiting? |
The former.
| Quote: | Also when you mention mod slewing as one of the principle unique characteristics of the Compact Phasing, is this how this is mainly heard in the circuit - this frequency-based distortion/non-distortion?
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From the 741's specs, slew limiting *must* occur at high levels and high frequencies. I like it as it is - whether for, or despite this effect, I don't know. Normally I don't run it at such high levels anyway.
JH. |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:13 pm Post subject:
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| numbertalk wrote: | Thanks for the clarification.
One more thing, though - the levels/frequencies mentioned in this case, is this in regards to the LFO signal or the audio signal? |
Audio.
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/webbop/741.htm
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Last edited by jhaible on Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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numbertalk
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 992
Location: Austin, TX
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject:
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Thanks.
| jhaible wrote: | | numbertalk wrote: | Thanks for the clarification.
One more thing, though - the levels/frequencies mentioned in this case, is this in regards to the LFO signal or the audio signal? |
Audio.
JH. |
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moosapotamus
Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 113
Location: New Hampshire USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject:
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All right! I've got mine all wired up and powered up and just about everything appears to be working except...
No LFO action. All the lamps are lighting up. In "manual" I can sweep with the "amplitude" pot (lamps get brighter and darker) and it sounds AWESOME! But when I switch it to "auto" the lamps just remain dimly lit and do not change.
Here are the DC voltages I measure on the ICs in the LFO...
| Code: |
pin U3 U4 U5
(741) (741) (1458)
1 7.84 7.84 7.84
2 7.45 7.84 7.83
3 0 0 0
4 0 0 0
5 0 0 2.41
6 7.65 7.38 2.41
7 14.98 14.98 2.41
8 300mV 335mV 14.98
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Adjusting the "low lim" trimmer makes the voltages on U5 pins 6 &7 go from about 2V up to about 5V, and pin 5 from 0V up to 5V.
Nothing is jumping out at me, other than the fact that those voltages are all pretty stable when (I'm just guessing) some of them ought to be moving around a bit.
Any help with ideas about what I should look at next to get the LFO working?
Thanks
~ Charlie
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:30 am Post subject:
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| moosapotamus wrote: |
| Code: |
pin U3 U4 U5
(741) (741) (1458)
1 7.84 7.84 7.84
2 7.45 7.84 7.83
3 0 0 0
4 0 0 0
5 0 0 2.41
6 7.65 7.38 2.41
7 14.98 14.98 2.41
8 300mV 335mV 14.98
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U5 is working all right, as far as I can tell.
U3 and U4 both show "impossible" behaviour:
The output (pin 6) must be close to 0V (like 1 or 2 V) with the negative input (pin 2) being so much more positive than the positive input (Pin 3).
Something is very wrong *in* these opamps, or closely around these opamps. How can U3, Pin3 be 0V anyway? With R10 and R7 both having a positive voltage on the other side??
Are all pins soldered correctly? No shorts?
Well, the 741's could be defective, in a way that they internally short pin 3 and pin 4 ...
Very strange!
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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moosapotamus
Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 113
Location: New Hampshire USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:43 am Post subject:
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Whoa... I typed something completely different than what I actually wrote down when I was measuring those voltages.
Sorry, here's what I should have typed...
| Code: |
pin U3 U4 U5
(741) (741) (1458)
1 0 0 7.84
2 7.84 7.84 7.84
3 7.45 7.84 7.83
4 0 0 0
5 0 0 2.41
6 7.65 7.38 2.41
7 14.98 14.98 2.41
8 300mV 335mV 14.98
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~ Charlie
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:40 pm Post subject:
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| moosapotamus wrote: | Whoa... I typed something completely different than what I actually wrote down when I was measuring those voltages.
Sorry, here's what I should have typed...
| Code: |
pin U3 U4 U5
(741) (741) (1458)
1 0 0 7.84
2 7.84 7.84 7.84
3 7.45 7.84 7.83
4 0 0 0
5 0 0 2.41
6 7.65 7.38 2.41
7 14.98 14.98 2.41
8 300mV 335mV 14.98
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~ Charlie |
It's still strange: U3 should be close to 0V at the output with pin 2 more positive than pin 3.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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moosapotamus
Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 113
Location: New Hampshire USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:06 pm Post subject:
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Everything is soldered in correctly, as indicated by the silkscreen and the layout image.
There are no visible shorts and I found no shorts with my continuity tester between any of the pins on U3.
I swapped U3 and U7 (and U4 and U8 ) and get the same voltages.
I also measured the voltages on the socket pins with U3 removed and got the same voltages except for pin 3 which is about 1V lower (6.38V).
Still no LFO action. Stumped! 
~ Charlie
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:50 pm Post subject:
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It doesn't make sense. Why is U4, pin 6 at a constant voltage at all? Without DC feedback (just a capacitor in the feedback loop, which makes the opamp an integrator), even with a non-working LFO, that output should be *drifting* until it hits one of the supply voltage rails.
Wait, here's an idea: Is C8 shorted? Internally or externally?
That could be it!
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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moosapotamus
Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 113
Location: New Hampshire USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:15 pm Post subject:
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No, C8 is not shorted. But what do you know... I have the wrong value in there. It's 1.0nF, instead of 1.0uF. I'll change it after supper and report back. Thanks!
~ Charlie
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moosapotamus
Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 113
Location: New Hampshire USA
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| Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:57 pm Post subject:
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Ah yes! That was it! Installed a 1.0uF for C8 and the LFO is working! Thank you Jürgen!
Also tried the CV input and it does not work as I drew it above, with the jack sleeve connected to ground. Instead, the jack still needs to be insulated from ground, like this...
So it's just a matter of using a mono normaled jack instead of a stereo normaled jack.
Thanks, again!
~ Charlie
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