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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
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bbw



Joined: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 13
Location: AZ, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:22 pm    Post subject: umm.... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
I think what qfingers is after, are the actual parameter ranges. Like how many ms is a decay value of 17?. You would need to measure at no less than 10 different settings for each parameter. Same for modulation deviation, Filter cutoff, resonance etc. Basically a lot of work for a dedicated and enthusiastic Lead2 owner. Very Happy


the reason i WANT a 2X > G2X patch conversion is keep me from having to BUY a 2X...
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: umm.... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbw wrote:
the reason i WANT a 2X > G2X patch conversion is keep me from having to BUY a 2X...


You could get a loaner 2X from your music store for the weekend? That should be long enough.
The better the measurements are, the better the converter will be.

Just waiting for someone else to do it will probably work as well. Very Happy
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Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4527
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: umm.... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbw wrote:
the reason i WANT a 2X > G2X patch conversion is keep me from having to BUY a 2X...

Just be aware the best thing of the NordLead is the very nice interface! Most users like to tweak it, even start from scratch. As a hands-on synth the Nord Modular G2(X) is rather poor compared with its little brother.
That's one of the reasons why Clavia uses this lay out on the new synth, the Nord Wave, even without the endless encoders...

qfingers and g2ian,

I use Sound Forge to measure audio observations in astronomic 'star black outs' (not singers with an overdose drugs Smile, so I can use it?

Wout
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bbw



Joined: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 13
Location: AZ, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:46 am    Post subject: i understand Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i appreciate the immediacy of the Nord Lead interface - i have a Nord Rack (expanded 12 voice...) it's great & it sounds great.

at the risk of repeating myself, i don't like the keyboard AT ALL on the Nord Lead 2X - it's cheap crap & no aftertouch. sounds great, though

my hope was that w/ a Nord Modular G2X, i could cover all the synth bases (Moog-ish stuff, Prophet-y stuff, CS-80-ish stuff, DX stuff, 2600 stuff, SH/303, oberheim-ish stuff, korg-ish stuff, Nord-ish stuff, vocoder...) for live playing w/ a nice keyboard w/ aftertouch & lots of physical controls w/o having to have racks of gear & a computer running software synths.

my hopes may be being dashed to the ground. Smile
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GovernorSilver



Joined: Apr 26, 2004
Posts: 1349
Location: Washington DC Metro
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: i understand Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbw wrote:
i appreciate the immediacy of the Nord Lead interface - i have a Nord Rack (expanded 12 voice...) it's great & it sounds great.

at the risk of repeating myself, i don't like the keyboard AT ALL on the Nord Lead 2X - it's cheap crap & no aftertouch. sounds great, though

my hope was that w/ a Nord Modular G2X, i could cover all the synth bases (Moog-ish stuff, Prophet-y stuff, CS-80-ish stuff, DX stuff, 2600 stuff, SH/303, oberheim-ish stuff, korg-ish stuff, Nord-ish stuff, vocoder...) for live playing w/ a nice keyboard w/ aftertouch & lots of physical controls w/o having to have racks of gear & a computer running software synths.

my hopes may be being dashed to the ground. Smile


Can you elaborate on how your hopes are being "dashed"?

My G2X is now my main synth in my admittedly minimalist keyboard rig. The key action, onboard controls, programmability, user interface, are all great for me.

I do have one warning about the G2X and either of its siblings - you may end up spending MANY hours downloading patches from the electro-music Patch Archives and trying them out on your synth - these forums are full of BRILLIANT patch designers/programmers. Interactive and non-interactive sequencers, Elastic Audio manipulators, audio processing patches - it's endless!
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Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I made some rough calculation, but since the Classic archive is converted, there are about 35 000 patches around... Just some NordLead added to it and it will grow towards 40 000... It will be the synth with the most patches available, ever...

But...
In practice it's unusable Smile

BTW be lucky you have a G2X, because they are hard to find, lately.

Wout
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

qfinger and g2ian...

I started the measurements, using a LFO pulse, which gives a sharp edge in the modulation and what I found until now... It's almost the same values as the G2 LFO has (some 0.02 Hz difference...)

Wout
who will continue the measurements Smile
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
qfinger and g2ian...

I started the measurements, using a LFO pulse, which gives a sharp edge in the modulation and what I found until now... It's almost the same values as the G2 LFO has (some 0.02 Hz difference...)

Wout
who will continue the measurements Smile


What a happy coincidence. You mean the G2 Rate Lo range (62Sec>24Hz)?
I downloaded the manual, the factory patches include the complete Prophet 5 factory set translated Cool

The synced noise option looks like it is a RndClkA, osc2 > clock osc1 > Rst. If luck holds out, then with the right seed value, we may be able to reproduce the exact same waveforms.

And bbw, your hopes are being dashed because the G2 factory presets don't have the sounds you want? I totaly understand.
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GovernorSilver



Joined: Apr 26, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
I made some rough calculation, but since the Classic archive is converted, there are about 35 000 patches around... Just some NordLead added to it and it will grow towards 40 000... It will be the synth with the most patches available, ever...

But...
In practice it's unusable Smile


Well, I can't say I'll find every single patch usable, but I use a couple of factory pad presets regularly with our band and from the User Community Archive I use the Modulated Delay and Multitap Delay patches for my guitar. I also really like the FM Filter factory patch.

Then again, my tastes are different from the typical "Virtual Analog" synth buyer - I'm not interested in making my G2X sound like an ARP, Moog, or other analog synth. I make use of a few patches that emulate analogs, but I'm not obsessing over getting the sounds exactly like any of the aforementioned analog synths. I think it's better to put a personal stamp on the sounds, if only I could find more time for patch programming.
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Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
What a happy coincidence. You mean the G2 Rate Lo range (62Sec>24Hz)?

Unfortunately not.
What I found out untli now it's about 0.16 Hz until 166 Hz. Confused

[quote]I downloaded the manual, the factory patches include the complete Prophet 5 factory set translated Cool[/qoute]
Not all of them, though.

Quote:
The synced noise option looks like it is a RndClkA, osc2 > clock osc1 > Rst. If luck holds out, then with the right seed value, we may be able to reproduce the exact same waveforms.

We'll find out... ?

Wout
Still busy, but will patch for some time now on the NL2 Smile
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When new to the synth the huge archive is a disaster.
And I build it Smile
Collected, mainly

Wout
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bbw



Joined: Apr 17, 2007
Posts: 13
Location: AZ, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:09 pm    Post subject: not to whine Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

YES, the reason i don't like the G2X very much is because i think the factory patches basically suck, imo. if you'd read the whole thread....

hate to be crying out to the admin when i've only posted less than 10 times, but, JAN, can we try to keep this thread focused? it seems like there are a lot of smart people. the RIGHT people participating in this discussion (i'm not talking about myself, but i'm willing to help to do whatever...) that might actually accomplish something - like creating auto-conversion for 2X to G2X. no offense, but can we try moving the fanboy & user experience commentary to another place? Smile (like the uploaded tune you moved yesterday?) please? thanks.
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: not to whine Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbw wrote:
JAN, can we try to keep this thread focused?


It seems that in this stage of the development of a new branch on the g2ools tree, as that's the way this seems to be going, a certain social playfulness is important. This does not mean however that the subject is considered unimportant or uninteresting, and I can still see things moving somewhere, not into chaos.

A page or so ago I suggested that, when the time is there, it would maybe be a good idea to start a new thread about this subject in the g2ools section in the Clavia forum, and to have that thread more focused to the subject. I don't think though the time is there yet; it might still be a bit early to prune the new branch.

OT : just delete the factory presets, that's what I did Wink

Have faith, something good is happening here Very Happy

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

While looking for NL2 sounds, I found these NM1 conversions of NL2 sound cards done last century.

They are 2.1 so need to be converted to 3.0 before they will run through nm2g2 without errors.

Here is one conversion. Maybe someone would like to convert all 866 patches. I notice that the sync noise is not modeled. I've done a G2 NL2 model that includes the sync noise, will post that when it's ready.


Zawinul lead.pch2
 Description:
one of the Nord Lead conversions for NM classic posted on Clavia's site

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 Filename:  Zawinul lead.pch2
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cappy2112



Joined: Dec 24, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:59 pm    Post subject: Re: umm.... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:

You could get a loaner 2X from your music store for the weekend? That should be long enough.


Do they really do that at music stores in NZ????

I would really be surprised if that would happen here.
Has anyone in the US ever tried this?
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ian-s



Joined: Apr 01, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: umm.... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cappy2112 wrote:
g2ian wrote:

You could get a loaner 2X from your music store for the weekend? That should be long enough.


Do they really do that at music stores in NZ????

I would really be surprised if that would happen here.
Has anyone in the US ever tried this?


Having a good relationship with the store owner would help (like a long history of expensive purchases), depends on the store I guess.
Consumers here do have the right to return any purchased item for a refund, within a few days, even if they only just changed their mind.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
While looking for NL2 sounds, I found these NM1 conversions of NL2 sound cards done last century.

They are 2.1 so need to be converted to 3.0 before they will run through nm2g2 without errors.

I haven't used G2ools yet, due to some computer failures (Yes, Jan, maybe I buy a new computer Smile but as far as I know these patches are converted already, both in Classic V3.03 and in G2 format, because the complete Classic archive is been done already... Or am I mistaken?

Two important issues...
1 the Classic isn't the G2 nor a NL, so the first conversions has already a lot of mistakes, like no Unison, which is important in the NL;
2 Clavia isn't very happy with the conversion, although... they sound on the Classic almost the same as on the NL.

The reason I like to convert directly from the NL format in a patch configuration simular to the NL is it will widen the possibilities of the sounds. It could be a NL2X++.

Wout
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:28 am    Post subject:
Subject description: Some results
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The first results.
I think the two LFO's are the same concerning the rate.

Jan, if you're awake, can you make a pdf file? Please? Wink

Wout


NordLead2_Values_Chart_LFO1.doc
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Replaced lost file

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes I'm awake alright :twisted:

(*)


lfo_1_2.pdf
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_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some notes by these results.

LFO1 was very easy to measure, because I used a puls to modulate the wave form. It gives those nice, sharp edges. LFO2 only has the triangle, so it is much lesser to find out the precise period of the modulation.

qfinger and g2ian, is the conclusion right about LFO2 or do you want a more precise measurement?

The FilterEnvelope and the AmpEnvelope are the same as the Nord Modular Classic, although by ear. Next week I will try to measure these precise.

The ModEnvelope is a must, because this module isn't in the Modular, I believe. Anyway, we have to be sure.

Further more, I tested the same wave form trice, and mostly there is a deference in the results, although rather small, like 3 msec.

Wout
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qfingers



Joined: Nov 16, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:

qfinger and g2ian, is the conclusion right about LFO2 or do you want a more precise measurement?


I may be necessary but I've got a couple of other requests:

1. Your .syx repository of those 6500. I will use them to make sure my program can read them all correctly.

2. Update your Nord Lead 2 patch to make sure all the module names are unique and correct. This will help in setting parameters from the .syx file. Also, make it generic so that all patch settings NL2 can be done without making modifications to the patch.

Wout, since you have trouble running my program and you have both units, I would like to let you grab the converted patches for comparison purposes from my web site. PM me and I will give you a username and password to my web site. I would also like to email you when I have a new patch set converted. It's much quicker then me posting on the forum. After several interations, we can post the results here.
That is if you want to. If you don't, I will have to find someone else with a NL2 and a G2 to help in the development.

q
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

qfingers wrote:
1. Your .syx repository of those 6500. I will use them to make sure my program can read them all correctly.

I can make some zips, one from each bank.
I just don't have any space on a website, not even here...
I will consult Jan about a solution.
(He has one... I have to buy a new computer)

Quote:
2. Update your Nord Lead 2 patch to make sure all the module names are unique and correct. This will help in setting parameters from the .syx file. Also, make it generic so that all patch settings NL2 can be done without making modifications to the patch.

I will check it out

Quote:
Wout, since you have trouble running my program and you have both units, I would like to let you grab the converted patches for comparison purposes from my web site. PM me and I will give you a username and password to my web site. I would also like to email you when I have a new patch set converted. It's much quicker then me posting on the forum. After several interations, we can post the results here.
That is if you want to. If you don't, I will have to find someone else with a NL2 and a G2 to help in the development.

Of course I will help, but I have limited time.
I will PB you

Wout

q[/quote]
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

[quote="Wout Blommers"]
[quote]I downloaded the manual, the factory patches include the complete Prophet 5 factory set translated Cool[/qoute]

What Prophet 5 patches are you referring to?
Is there a set someone made for the NM1?
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cappy2112



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:

I haven't used G2ools yet, due to some computer failures


What problems are you having Wout?
Why not post the error messages or screenshots?

The Mac people are running g2ools now, I'm sure we can get you on your feet too. No need to buy another computer just for that Smile
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Somebody wrote:

I downloaded the manual, the factory patches include the complete??? Prophet 5 factory set translated Cool

What Prophet 5 patches are you referring to?
Is there a set someone made for the NM1?

In the Performance mode, the last banks (J) contains 40 Prophet V presets. If you have a good look at the NordLead you'll find some simularity with the Prophet V interface. Yep, Mr Nordelius is a Dave Smith fan too. The complete Prophet V isn't there, only 40 of 120...

Of course, these will be converted to the G2 too.
If there is someone who knows their original names?

Wout


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