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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
24 hour Lunetta?
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:54 am    Post subject: 24 hour Lunetta? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tomorrow is the last free day of my summer break.
I have had this panel in the cupboard for a while, has 28 banana sockets, 8 leds, 8 mom switches and 4 dpst toggle switches, everything is already wired up.
decided to build a small Lunetta, could drill more holes for banana sockets if necessary.

So i have given myself 24 hours to build a synth, plan tonight, solder tomorrow.
Any suggestions for the best circuits to put into a small Lunetta??

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RF



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds like fun! I look forward to what you come up with.
If I was going to pick just a few circuits from the ones I've built they would be

R/2R Ladder
4094 8 bit Shift Register
4051 CV Generator
Lots of Oscillators/VFO's/clocks from one 40106
..and a simple 555 VCO

good luck

bruce
(Edit to change 555 VFO to VCO typo)

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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

40106 oscillators (a'la bugbrand)
4093 gated oscillators
4011 ring mod
4040/4051 sequencer thingy
passive LPF
passive (vactroled) VCFs &/or VCAs

555s? meh... not so much.

b

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macumbista



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

4093 oscillators
4069 Distortion (a la Wasp)
Vactrol (or DIY equivalent) for FM on the first gate of the 4093
Some passive filters
TL071/072 comparator for audio input from contact mic, etc

That's the recipe for my workshop circuits, anyways. Check Tom Bugs fantastic workshop circuit here:

http://www.bugbrand.co.uk/docs/bugbrand_workshop_osc_machine1_1.pdf

for more on 40106 oscillators with sync, plus mixer, current starvation, etc etc.

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slacker



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd pretty much go along with everyone else. You can do a lot with a bunch of oscillators, a counter like a 4024 or 4040 and some nand or xor gates.
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks all!
have started it up, mostly seems to work but not properly tested yet
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

3 40106 VCOs
2 gated osc
4024 ripple
4006 shift reg
one of those 4040/4051 sequencers
4516 up/down counter
2 XOR
2 channel mixer
will learn more about it tomorrow
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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Way to go, AndrewF!
Can't wait to hear what you get out of it.

bruce

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slacker



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Look's great Andrew, let us know how it sounds.
I've been experimenting with the 4516, it makes a great tune/noise maker.
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

built a 'box' for it = 5 bits of wood screwed together
sorted all the bugs
everything works
lots of crosstalk, sometimes i don't have to actually plug anything into the mixer to get a good sound happening.
the sounds sometimes change when i touch the panel, could try and fix these things but its kind of charming.

quickly learnt everything sounds much better running at audio frequencies....the electronic squirts

wish I'd taken the advice to put in a passive low-pass filter, might just drill 2 more holes.
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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

great stuff!

actually, the "24 hr lunetta" concept is very inspiring. i tend to overthink and fuss over th details, which in some contexts is a good thing but sometimes the result is too much planning and not enuf soldering! the whole lunetta philosophy lends itself to more of a "just do it" approach. i'm going to reserve a sunday and set myself the same challenge...

bbob

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andrewF



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

could be interesting!
anyone else up for producing a lunetta in 24 hours?
oh ... plus an afternoon for debugging and to nail it into a box Laughing

be great to see what people can do
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

andrewF wrote:
could be interesting!
anyone else up for producing a lunetta in 24 hours?
oh ... plus an afternoon for debugging and to nail it into a box Laughing

be great to see what people can do


I'm trying to figure out why this is becoming more and more intriguing to ME especially.

My first ever 'synth' in 1986 was 4 x CD4011 oscillators. 2 of them had 1 input switchable to either self oscillation or modulation.

(I have 1, 30 minute long tune recorded with it in 1989, online at:
http://www.rykhaard.com/Samples/mp3/WanderingDepthsWonderingMinds1990.mp3 - make sure then entire URL is on one line, for it too work.)

Over the years - I built 5 more 'noise machines', all based around the same idea. The last 1, in 2001 was 100% modular and all built around 2N3904s! Wonderful old beast.

Now though - being a melody / chord progression composer mainly - the huge pile of CMOS that I DO have is starting to tug at me. Smile I haven't built anything 'pure' as in y'all or doing with Lunetta gear (I.E. - no buffers or anything for any connections), SINCE my last noise machine.

Becoming tempting. Smile

My 24 hours though, due to girlfriend interruptions, would have to be spread over a 4 or 5 day period of weekdays. Shall ponder it this weekend and take a peek at what CMOS I have that isn't booked for anything. Smile

If I go ahead with it, I'll just prelay everything out in software for a PCB and then cook the board and build it that way, to a dedicated rack panel.
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droffset



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You fine folks have inspired me. I now have a handful of ICs and tutorials, am now laying out a sort of Lunetta Lite (just using the chips i halfway understand.) Let's see what can be accomplished this weekend.
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RF



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's been almost a year since mosc started this forum topic - and we may have finally reached a critical mass. It's great to see people getting motivated to build these.

They are terribly fun.... (I've just rcvd. an order with some parts for building another one.)

bruce

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macumbista



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's not a full-on modular Lunetta, but I did make it in a single afternoon with one of my students at a workshop in Copenhagen. Notable feature is "AM-style" modulation via a comparator built with TL072.


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Single 4093 oscillator gated by input from contact microphone via TL072 comparator.
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

boxed and knobbed, yes i couldn't find any 'n's
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


there's something quite appealing about a Lunetta, its so basic and raw but capable of incredible sounds.

I think it would be a great 1st diy-synth
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:

(I have 1, 30 minute long tune recorded with it in 1989, online at:
http://www.rykhaard.com/Samples/mp3/WanderingDepthsWonderingMinds1990.mp3 - make sure then entire URL is on one line, for it too work.)


Ryk - that track is just awesome!! well done and thanks for posting it. I've got my copy downloaded Smile

I realise that recording was from the dark ages (pre-WWW) but can you tell us some more about the modules in that synth?
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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

macumbista wrote:
It's not a full-on modular Lunetta, but I did make it in a single afternoon with one of my students at a workshop in Copenhagen. Notable feature is "AM-style" modulation via a comparator built with TL072.


Mp3 please!
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

andrewF wrote:
Rykhaard wrote:

(I have 1, 30 minute long tune recorded with it in 1989, online at:
http://www.rykhaard.com/Samples/mp3/WanderingDepthsWonderingMinds1990.mp3 - make sure then entire URL is on one line, for it too work.)


Ryk - that track is just awesome!! well done and thanks for posting it. I've got my copy downloaded Smile

I realise that recording was from the dark ages (pre-WWW) but can you tell us some more about the modules in that synth?


MANY thanks! To this day, it's STILL my most fave noise piece that I ever recorded. Smile

The heart of the entire live recording was:

2 x CD4011 clocks, with pitch controls.
2 x CD4011 clocks, with pitch controls AND a switch for each to decide whether 1 of each of the clocks inputs was routed to it's out own output, or to the output of the 1st CD4011 clock.
This combination allowed me to created Pulse Width waveforms, depending on the pitch control of 1 of the clocks, whilst the other pitch control determined the actual pitch.

The pitch ranges of all 4 of the clocks, swept our entire hearing range, so that I could turn the control to it's high extreme to essentially switch that oscillator/clock 'off'.

The mono output of the entire unit was fed into 3 multi fx units that were hooked up in serial fashion / i.e.: the out from one into the other.

I remember 2 of the multi-fx units for SURE: The Digitech DSP-128 and the ART DR-X. The 3rd one, MIGHT have been the Alesis Quadaverb. I don't remember it for sure.

The very beginning of the tune had me speaking directly into a Roland SVC-350. I'm not able to remember who the modulator for it, were.

And that essentially - is the entire tune. Everything was recorded directly to cassette tape, live until the 30 minute tape, ran out. Smile

It's more'n likely the utter simplicity of the 'synth', that I haven't ever been able to reproduce, ever since.

P.S. - Whilst I remember it - one of the multi-effects units (Ahh! The 3rd MIGHT have been the Boss SE-50) was set up to do 1 or 2 octave pitch shifting. Smile
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droffset



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's the weekend's result. I'm breaking a few rules (most of them) but it's all for fun anyway, right?

I'm using bullet style connectors instead of bananna jacks because i can get a 50 pack really cheap. Connections will be done with alligator clip leads because i got 50 of them really cheap. I'm building most of it with cardboard and foamcore because (you guessed it) I'm really cheap.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3307/3299900482_f2a2475fd3.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3451/3299922798_f477ce18ab.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3563/3299093873_255c4694a8.jpg?v=0
Here's what you see:

1. A panel with three different sound cicuits.
-transistor multivibrator that i already had, from slow taps to buzzy buzzes.
-a basic electronic piano circuit with a pot instead of the resistor string
-a basic 555 square wave

2. NAND, NOR and XOR block

3. a 4017 panel, still need to do the wiring though.

4. 4 kits i already had, a guitar sustain thingy, a tone controller, and a little amplifier.

To Do:
-A panel of proper 40106 oscillators from the osc thread.
-Learn how to set up the dozen other ICs i have.
-A mixer.
-on/off switches on the oscillators (using just dual pins with jumpers)
-pulldown resistors for the inputs.
-a deluxe APC panel
-start working on the WSG, it calls to me


So far I've learned that patience pays. Don't cut before glue is dry!

The 4107, NAND, NOR and XOR were pretty straightforward with their inputs/outputs, but i'm having a hard time working out more complex pinouts on 10 other cmos ICs i have. I guess it's a matter of understanding their functions first, so this is surely a long term project. But I can't really plan a panel for something if I don't (yet) understand the general idea of it's usage. So the reading continues, it's pretty fun.

Questions:

-Do you guys have each IC connected directly to power and ground under the hood? Mine's going to run only on the 9v setting on my supply.

-for output to speaker or an amp, where does the ground connection come from?

-Would someone like to create a tutorial or set of plans for newbies to start with, especially how various ICs would be set up?

Thanks
s


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andrewF



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I'm using bullet style connectors instead of bananna jacks because i can get a 50 pack really cheap. Connections will be done with alligator clip leads because i got 50 of them really cheap. I'm building most of it with cardboard and foamcore because (you guessed it) I'm really cheap.


thats a great idea, no drilling, cheap and functional.

i worked from CMOS Sourcebook by Braga. basically any inputs get a pull down/up resistor, outputs straight to the panel.
i was conservative and connected all power and ground pins as per normal, but it sounds like it is worth wiring at least one of the oscillator chips power pin to a pot set up as a voltage divider
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droffset



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, I might redo the card to look neater, no so tattered at the edges. Or might just use black tape on the edges.

I'll have to chase up that book. Until then, this page is pretty helpful:
http://milkcrate.com.au/_other/sea-moss/
Great plain-language explanations. Will probably do panels for the ICs described next.

Rykhaard I think your mp3 is making me more productive at work. It's a good background track. Smile

RF , the Lunetta concept is really appealing for newbies coming out of the 130 in 1 electronics kit 'womb.' You do have to sort of reach a critical mass of understanding to start setting one up though.

If I become confident enough will undertake a ''my first lunetta tutorial'' for noobs to just follow the instructions to assemble one.
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

droffset wrote:

Rykhaard I think your mp3 is making me more productive at work. It's a good background track. Smile


Now that, is a truly wonderful compliment! Smile Thank you kindly droffset!
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Dave Kendall



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wicked track Ryk!

I got seriously spaced-out listening to it......

I stopped soldering, opened a beer, cranked the system up, turned down the lights, and went, er, somewhere you can't buy a ticket to...... Smile

cheers,
Dave
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RF



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

droffset wrote:
Until then, this page is pretty helpful:
http://milkcrate.com.au/_other/sea-moss/
.... coming out of the 130 in 1 electronics kit 'womb.'...


Those "sea-moss" pages are great - some really neat ideas. I used a couple of his ideas.

A lot of the Lunetta bits didn't make much sense 'til I started patching them together. Then all of a sudden - Exclamation

Oh - and I started in electronics with a "Heathkit Electronic Workshop 19" given to me by an uncle in the late '60's. That gift actually changed the direction of my life.

bruce

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