BPM's jump around with MIDI sync in Cubase/Nuendo

zeppelin · Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 2 Location: IN

I saw Modular posted a message about this earlier, but unfortunately I didn't get much help from it. I have CubaseSX2/Nuendo (based on same engine) to send out Midi Time Code. It sends it fine, but when u look at the BPM's, it jumps around +5 to -5 BPM's constantly. I have tried every variation in the Sync Setup with no success. I tried it in Sonar 4 at a friends house, and it works like a dream. Anybody else have this issue. Went to Steinbergs forums, and didn't see anybody with this issue. Any help would be great.

Nord G2X / Access Virus KC / Yamaha DX7IIFD
RME FireFace800

jamos · Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 7:41 pm Post subject:

If you're sending MIDI time code, that's a mistake.. you should send MIDI clock, which is entirely different. You probably should disable MIDI time code.. that might conceivably cause such a problem.

AngusHastie · Posted: Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:44 pm Post subject:

I have exactly the same problem with synching to Logic 7.
From what I understand, MIDI clock signals from software aren't that reliable, and you're better off using a hardware clock. No idea why, but that's the advice I was given when I posted a similar question.

blue hell · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:52 am Post subject:

paul e. · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:09 am Post subject:

actually itis midi clock and not time code that jumps around

this is normal for midi clock to +/-5 bpm's..'normal', but not that great

as it takes the average of the bpm's... so you sorta end up with your desired BPM on the average

midi time code is far more stable but i am not sure if time code will work in the case you described

paul e. · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:19 am Post subject:

so, are you sure you are using time code and not clock

also, what is the frame rate of the G2..does anyone know...25,30 or 30non drop Question

maybe you need to match up the frame rates

jamos · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:11 pm Post subject:

Frame rate is meaningless in a tempo-based device such as a sequencer. Hence the G2 knows nothing about frame rate.

This is kind of a pet peeve of mine, that people confuse MIDI clock and MIDI timecode. Timecode is wall-clock based and has nothing to do with tempo (or "BPM's"). MIDI clock is sent at a rate that is dependent on tempo. If MIDI clock is not sent with impeccable timing, the tempo will jump all over the place, as it apparently does with Nuendo.

Sending MTC to the G2 is a waste of MIDI bandwidth.

blue hell · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:15 pm Post subject:

From the G2 manual (MIDI section) :

egw · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:34 pm Post subject:

I wouldn't say that a midi clock that varies by 5bpm is normal.
At least not for hardware.

zeppelin · Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 2 Location: IN

OK, to clarify. In Nuendo 2.2, I tried two sync options.
1. MIDI Time Code: Result: The synth did not even respond to it.
2. MIDI Clock: Result: Same as before, jumps +-5 in the BPM.

So MIDI Time Code didn't work at all where the MIDI clock did.
If there are suposed to be minor various in the sync, how can
one sync up a Arpeggiator to that. I totally looses consistancy
after two to three measures.

In Sonar 4 Producer Edition, I have it setup as MIDI clock
for the sync, and its stable as mable. Never deviates from the
BPM.

My thoughts is Steinbergs sync output isn't as consistant
as Cakewalks, but one would wonder if you paid 1200 bux
for Nuendo, you would expect it to sync better than it is.

Anyway, thanx for the discussion on it. I guess i either get
a hardware sync and use Nuendo, or just stay with Sonar.

Zeppelin

mosc · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject:

Why don't you make the G2 the source of the MIDI clock and let your software follow it?

egw · Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 6:04 pm Post subject:

It's probably not the software per se, but how much load it is putting on the processor. The processor is occasionally getting interrupted to perform higher priority tasks. Since the clock is a background function, it has to wait. But 5bpm is still way too much.

The Why Project · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:38 pm Post subject:

On my old micromodular, I used the following trick, and I suppose that
on the G2 it will work perfectly too:

Set the synth to follow it's own internal clock, at the same tempo as
your software sequencer.
Set up a note-detector to detect a note that you don't use in your
composition (most of the time you won't play all notes on the keyboard
anyway...).
Send the output of the note-detector to your clock-module (or your
sequencer) reset. If you now send that particular note from your
sequencer software, every 1 clock-cycle (bar), you will reset the
sequence to the start.

This will keep the sequences rather tight (more so than an instable
midi-clock!). Even if you start your sequencer and the modular at the
same time, running the same tempo, they will drift. This method doesn't
cost much dsp, but eliminates the drift.

Greetz,

The Why Project

blue hell · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:16 pm Post subject:

Welcome to EM "The Why Project" !

It's a nice trick you present here.

Jan.

mosc · Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 6:32 pm Post subject:

Yes,

"The Why Project", great tip...

The Why Project · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 4:44 am Post subject:

Thanks for the welcome Smile

Although I run a completely optimized XP with Cubase SX2 on an Athlon
XP 3200+ with loads of Ram, with a Midex-8, once I slave Cubase to my
HD Recorder, the clock it sends out becomes unstable... (it's OK when
Cubase is master though). So I had to come up with this creative
solution Cool

Greetz,

The Why Project