electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » WREN
Wren latest version - 2020.10.17.0
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 8 of 8 [197 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, ..., 6, 7, 8
Author Message
boaone



Joined: Nov 06, 2019
Posts: 42
Location: Warsaw
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I will try to add an audio example later. From what I hear, sometimes the midi messages go silent for a moment and after a while more delayed messages are played to keep up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
boaone



Joined: Nov 06, 2019
Posts: 42
Location: Warsaw
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok. Here some short example how it going at my place. Sequence going from ableton by midi (not virtual cable) without any clock only midi notes. I noticed when i don't touching any knob its better but when some interface with info popups midi going weird. I've tried to disable graphics card but it didn't change anything. Maybe there is some problem with my hardware i dont know but when i sequencing samplers and some sytnhs or external vst this is not a problem only standard jitter.


2020_07_24__07_11_34__089__BUFFER WAV.wav
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  2020_07_24__07_11_34__089__BUFFER WAV.wav
 Filesize:  30.97 MB
 Downloaded:  17 Time(s)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
boaone



Joined: Nov 06, 2019
Posts: 42
Location: Warsaw
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When i turn off hints at settings menu it's much better but still the problem persists. Tried change audio buffer but no difference.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23376
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 261
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm yeah, that does not sound any good.

Found a way to reproduce it more or less ...

when I use very short duration notes .. using the G2 ClkGen module as a trigger, and when in Wren I use EnvArRtrig set to N(ormal) mode it misses a lot of notes.

When I set the envelopes to H(old) mode I can hear that it does not actually miss any notes (for as far as I can hear it high speeds .. ) .. but it could be that the note-offs are sounding then instead (meaning that note-ons get fukt by a quikly following note-off).

Or it could be that the envelopes do not work properly with very short notes .. hmm .. nope that works fine .. so it must be MIDI indeed overwriting the ons with offs.

Will investigate this further .. interesting :lol:

Hmm .. things improve when the patch needs more CPU .. funny.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23376
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 261
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Hmm .. things improve when the patch needs more CPU .. funny.


Shocked of course .. note on and the later off end up in the same sample frame (which for a light patch get executed pretty quikly) so the off will almost immediately cancel the on ..

It needs a timer to determine the note duration .. the note on can then be processed immediately I think, and it sets a time stamp .. and then when a note off comes in a duration can be calculated .. which then gets decremented in the audio thread .. depending on sample rate .. and when < 0 only then the note off must be executed (and the off velocity be set).

Just implemented this on the single midi note in thingie, and things go way better .. will tinker some more though .. about what should happen with the note-on .. it is still a bit jittery.

Edit: yup, needs more work Rolling Eyes

Edit2: Made the module run at audio rate instead of control rate. With a buffer size of 256 it's sollid here & now with 16th notes @ 240 BPM .. thats almost a tone in itself then Laughing Still would be nice if it would work for larger buffer sizes too (for a buffer size of 2048 frames it's stable now upto 90 BPM or so .. which also means that a buffer of 512 would prolly still work ok too for the rate mentioned before), working a queues now. Anyways .. getting somewhere Cool

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23376
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 261
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok .. I think this should be good enough ..

there is a little jitter beteen left and right channels .. recorded this with the same patch as before except that I now used N(ormal) mode and not H(old) for the envelopes and added a little phase warping to the osc's that otherwise still are sines .. and a littl ebit if 3rd harmonic distortion .. so that should nit fuck the timing.

Buffer size was set to 512 sample rate of 48k .. so there is about 11 ms of audio in the buffers .. and so expecting a max jitter of about 11 ms too .. it seems less ... dunno .. and I ran this on a debug verson of Wren (which performs worse than the release version).

Edit: BPM starts at 90 .. then 120, 180 and 240. 1/16 notes.

Edit2: tried some quue tricks .. but that only made it worse.

Edit3: still need to apply the changes to the multi note in thingies and test that, somewhere next week I guess.


test_midi_2.mp3
 Description:
Blue Hell - another Wren MIDI test recording

Download
 Filename:  test_midi_2.mp3
 Filesize:  1.6 MB
 Downloaded:  24 Time(s)


_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23376
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 261
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fuck .. it also depends on the weather and the time of the day .. now it's not good anymore Confused
_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
boaone



Joined: Nov 06, 2019
Posts: 42
Location: Warsaw
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

At this audio example arp going pretty solid Smile. Nice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23376
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 261
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Found another bottleneck and solved that, midi code was posting messages to the GUI thread, bypassed that, injecting MIDI directly from the driver into the synth now .. for real-time and note messages only sofar .. but will add everything that way except sysex.

It does not seem to depend on the weather anymore :-)


test_midi_3.mp3
 Description:
Blue Hell - yet another MIDI test thingie

Download
 Filename:  test_midi_3.mp3
 Filesize:  1.81 MB
 Downloaded:  25 Time(s)


_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23376
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 261
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Multi-midi works too now :-)

Slowing it down from 240 to 30 BPM.

G2 side:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Wren side:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


test_midi4_multi.mp3
 Description:
Blue Hell - a multi midi test

Download
 Filename:  test_midi4_multi.mp3
 Filesize:  2.66 MB
 Downloaded:  23 Time(s)


_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23376
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 261
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

An update addressing the MIDI issues. There probably are some more with MIDI output, as I did not change anything for that.

Downlaods @ : https://bluehell.nl/wren/#top

Quote:
Fixes for MIDI modules. MIDI was not really dropping notes, but note-offs could follow immediately after note-ons, so a trigger out did not get generated. Changed the timing, such that the actual note duration is being tracked now. Another issue was that the MIDI modules were not fast enough, so changed their processing to be at audio rates. The third issue was that the low level MIDI code was posting messages to the GUI thread to signal incoming data. This was changed to let the MIDI driver inject MIDI messages directly into audio thread. This also greatly reduced the sensitivity to GUI events happening.

Ran some tests on this and on my laptop with an ASIO buffer size of 256 the MIDI modules can now handle 1/16 notes at rates of 240 BPM. Audio buffer size matters still for MIDI timing accuracy, as a note-on event is not synced with the audio thread, only the duration is being calculated in samples now – so there still is note onset jitter, but that's a couple of milli seconds at most with the settings mentioned before.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Airlock



Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 252
Location: Harleysville PA
Audio files: 43

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:21 pm    Post subject: WREN midi test Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Used the iPad app Fugue Machine to test it.


Fugue.mp3
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Fugue.mp3
 Filesize:  2.05 MB
 Downloaded:  17 Time(s)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23376
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 261
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: WREN midi test Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Airlock wrote:
Used the iPad app Fugue Machine to test it.


It seems to work .. nice tune :-)

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Airlock



Joined: Apr 06, 2007
Posts: 252
Location: Harleysville PA
Audio files: 43

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks! Yeah, it plays that bass triplet without, uh, tripping over it; I can't imagine I would be pushing it much more than that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23376
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 261
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Quote:
[...]a note-on event is not synced with the audio thread, only the duration is being calculated in samples now – so there still is note onset jitter[...]


Ran some thought and code experiments to try to better up the note onset jitter, but this can only be fixed by introducing extra audio latency, as the note-ons will happen in a part of the audio buffering that is alread under control of the audo card .. I'd have to delay the audio for an extra buffer frame .. so .. there is a trade-off there .. jitter vs longer but predictable latency ... not really wanting to add extra audio latency now .. so ... for reasonable real time midi performance the bufer sizes will just have to be set low.


For now at least .. I may add an extra (configurable) audio delay at some stage.

The good news is that I was able to remove two days worth of experimental code in about 10 minutes Laughing

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
boaone



Joined: Nov 06, 2019
Posts: 42
Location: Warsaw
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I must admit that WREN with midi in now running pretty solid after update.
Hours without midi note drop. Thanks for all work !!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23376
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 261
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, good to know :-)
_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
boaone



Joined: Nov 06, 2019
Posts: 42
Location: Warsaw
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Also rock solid midi clock i think would be a strong point of wren. Most of the software have some nasty jitter. And i have a question. Would it be hard to implement gpu rendering of interface with vector graphics ? You said You Didn't have "vectors" somewhere. But if you had, it would be too time-consuming to implement ? How many elements need to be converted ? Of course, if you consider such a big change.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23376
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 261
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

boaone wrote:
[...] But if you had, it would be too time-consuming to implement ? How many elements need to be converted ? Of course, if you consider such a big change.


Yeah, quite some work .. I would have to recode the user interface .. and also would need a new way to design modules ... I'm considering this every now and then .. but as of yet have not thought up a good way to do it.

So anyway, it is not just the images.

Ideally I see it as two separate programs, a sound engine and a control panel program, the latter maybe even being a web browser :shock: .. anyway, such would make it portable to other OSes too, or easier to make it portable at least.

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
boaone



Joined: Nov 06, 2019
Posts: 42
Location: Warsaw
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes. Wren with some direct acces to dropbox or something for patches would be interesting. But too keep up compatibility with pletora of browsers and all that rubbish i think its a big pain and also no asio unfortunately so far. But gpu rendering even with same ui that would be a big change. Fluid interface and more resources from cpu for patch. I realize it's a lot of work considering how long it took Ableton to implement. But it was always funny for me how such a gpu beasts sitting idle at background doing nothing. Another architecture and latency but still funny there isn't offline renders for audio on gpus.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23376
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 261
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've just posted a new version (2020-09-09) on my web site.

It is a bit experimental still I guess, the main feature is polyphony, and I've tested this for a month, or two maybe with a handful of patches and several old ones, so it may be reasonably stable.

For mono patches there is some extra overhead unfortunately, but in poly patches it is more efficient than patching the same thing out a couple of times.

Most modules are polyphonic, but for some it did not seem to make much sense (like reverbs), or I thought there to be too much overhead when polyphonizing them.

I've made a new tab on the module selector, Poly, for some polyphony specific modules - like a splitter from poly to multiple mono channels, a merger doing the reverse thing, a summer summing poly channels, a shifter for bringing a signal from one channel to another, a selector to select a specific channel (and a multi version of it, doing the same for up to eight signals), a status module which outputs the channel, a poly view module with a VU meter for each channel.

I would still like to have the ability to select parts of a patch to be monophonic, but I've not found a way acceptable to me for that, so in the source code you may find some hints for what I've tried sofar but in the program it has all been disabled (it was not working anyway). I did not like the idea of mono cables (as some synths have them), I did like the Clavia idea of having a mono section (for FX), but would prefer to have it a bit more flexible than that, anyway, that's a future thing, if at all.

I've also made a new PolyMidNoteIn module, a polyphonic version of the MidiNoteIn module, which for polyphonic patches is meant to replace the paraphonic Mid8NoteIn and MidiMultiNoteIn modules, it should offer the same functionality as those two but in a more transparent manner.

The existing delay based modules are kept monophonic mostly, in that they use a single shared delay line, but some can have a per-voice modulatable tap point, so the output can be poly even when the input is being summed over all voices. I've made a new DelayPoly module which is fully poly. I've tried to update the help stuff to give some information about all this, but I probably forgot some details.

For more details have a look at : https://bluehell.nl/wren/#changes

And for downloads go to : https://bluehell.nl/wren/#top

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 23376
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 261
G2 patch files: 320

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Undid the 'smart' note processing for lower latency introduced in a previous version - it was not working properly .. a note would hold as long as it had been pressed .. or something like that .. strange stuff that I had not noticed because I had been testing with AD envelopes in trigger instead of in hold mode.

Then a couple of other changes you can read about at : https://bluehell.nl/wren/#changes - most interesting probably the ability to set selected modules into forced mono mode.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

oh, and the ugly visual feedback on this can be turned off in the settings screen (F3).

Downloads: https://bluehell.nl/wren/#top

_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 8 of 8 [197 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, ..., 6, 7, 8
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » WREN
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use