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RF
Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1502
Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28
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 Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject:
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I'll bet Ian was refering to the 'wiper' of the pot - the center conection on a standard round pot.... 
I'm interested to hearing what you get from the jerk board, loss -
I probably wouldn't have built the Easy Chaos until I saw you having so much fun with it 
bruce |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
Posts: 1536
Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject:
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wow
now i feel like an idiot
i had just never seen it called that before....
i sure have been having fun with these circuits~~!!
you know i got my wogglebug woggling now too so i think my second rack is really going to be crazy!!
so far its going to be:
ez chaos
jerkster
grant richters wave twister
fritz's t/g/s/h
wogglebug
and hopefully ken stones wave pcb (cant remember the name of it)
and one more vco and eg (if that will all fit)
i seem to lean more toward the weird stuff  sound research
thanks
_________________
-------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject:
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| RF wrote: | | I'll bet Ian was refering to the 'wiper' of the pot - the center conection on a standard round pot.... |
Ooops, now I see. Yes, it would be better to use the term "wiper" to avoid confusion.
Ian |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
Posts: 1536
Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:02 am Post subject:
NEW SAMPLES!!!! |
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as promised here a bunch of samples from Ian's "jerk" chaos circuit.
this one can get a huge range of sounds and i think that its useful for all kinds of applications from lfo like modulation to chaotic patterns to bell like textures .(through cv)
i tried to make some samples that would show it working in the audio and lfo range.
enjoy
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classic chaos jerk 1.mp3 |
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1320 Time(s) |
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bell like.mp3 |
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1330 Time(s) |
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emergrency broadcast jerk.mp3 |
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808.37 KB |
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1293 Time(s) |
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chaos machine.mp3 |
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683.77 KB |
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1367 Time(s) |
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metal chaos woggle.mp3 |
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645.13 KB |
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1261 Time(s) |
_________________
-------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
Posts: 1536
Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:19 am Post subject:
part 2 |
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some more
just to be clear:
most of these are just the jerk going into the CV In of a vco and a filter. some of them include knob turning while the sample is being recorded. a couple include MIDI2cv notes coming into another cv input (which by the way, this circuit sounds GREAT when modulating notes. it actually really shines as a strange lfo.
a few of these had sound coming into the MOD input of the circuit (which really makes it go nuts! and a couple have the wogglebug controlling the filter or as another cv source)
i could go on forever just recording samples of the jerk and the woggle together.
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chaos beat2.mp3 |
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smoky machinetalk.mp3 |
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freak outjerk.mp3 |
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1276 Time(s) |
_________________
-------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
Last edited by loss1234 on Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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| Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject:
Re: NEW SAMPLES!!!! |
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| loss1234 wrote: |
this one can get a huge range of sounds and i think that its useful for all kinds of applications from lfo like modulation to chaotic patterns to bell like textures .(through cv)
i tried to make some samples that would show it working in the audio and lfo range. |
Many thanks for posting some of your results. You are getting a good range of sounds out of it, some similar to ones I have gotten and some quite different.
Ian |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24447
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 297
G2 patch files: 320
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:37 am Post subject:
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| loss1234 wrote: | | ...this actually went on for like 20 minutes (times 5 tracks) but i thought no way is anyone going to listen to that! |
I would, its quite nice actually ... except for how it ends now 
_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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goldenechos
Joined: Jun 06, 2007
Posts: 201
Location: Marshall, NC
Audio files: 1
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:49 am Post subject:
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I would probably listen to the whole thing as well, while at work. If possible do post.
Tony |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
Posts: 1536
Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject:
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wow-really??
if id have known that i would have posted!! i was worried i would go over my upload limit (i actually have made quite a few pieces that are like 10 minutes long over the last month and i always thought theyd put people off or put them to sleep)
but i forget, you guys are synth freaks like me!!
so i will try to get it up this weekend and maybe something else
thanks for the kind words
_________________
-------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24447
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 297
G2 patch files: 320
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject:
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I'd better expand your quota again then .. I noticed you already ran out of the current limit ... I can not go on expanding it forever .. but I do want to hear this thing
_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
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Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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mono-poly
Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 937
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
Audio files: 2
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:43 am Post subject:
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| Perhaps use a service like Twango for mp3's? |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24447
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 297
G2 patch files: 320
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:55 am Post subject:
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| loss1234 wrote: | | should i start deleting my stuff then? this is why i usually dont post such long things!! |
It's not up to me to decide about how you use your resources; it's just that they are not endless ... I gave you some headroom and I can do that one more time.
_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
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Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
Posts: 1536
Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:20 am Post subject:
yeah for the jerkster! |
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Ian- id love to know what some of the settings are actually doing to the equations. i know that this might be too involved of a subject but its too hard for me at this point to look at the schematic and understand what is coming from where.
to be specific, id love to know what the NL drive does, and also, what damp is doing. rate makes sense to me on an intuitive level but the rest do not.
am i correct in understanding that turning the knobs actually changes the variables in an equation that when set up just right creates chaos?
also, in this circuit, what does the mod in do? what is it modifying (the whole system or just the rate,etc....what did you intend for people to plug into the mod in? i have been able to get crazy stuff with that mod in but i would love to know a bit more about the ins and outs of this design.
thanks again for such a great circuit!!
i am now also going to try to mess around with the sensitivity to initial conditions idea as well.
_________________
-------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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| Posted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:01 am Post subject:
Re: yeah for the jerkster! |
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| loss1234 wrote: | | Ian- id love to know what some of the settings are actually doing to the equations. i know that this might be too involved of a subject but its too hard for me at this point to look at the schematic and understand what is coming from where. |
Sure. The equation for the jerkster is given here (on the schematic diagram):
http://home.comcast.net/~ijfritz/ch_cir2.htm
"A" is the "Damping" control; g() is the nonlinearity, varied by "NL Drive"; and "K" is the "Gain" control. The "Rate" control does not show up in the equation, because the equation uses a scaled time, i.e. equation_time equals rate x actual time. This works because the chaotic *pattern* is the same for all rates, and the equation is just for describing the pattern.
"Rate" is similar to "Frequency" in a VCO or VCF. A chaotic attractor actually has a well-defined average frequency, despite its irregularity. "Damp" is a kind of negative resonance control, but just for one stage of the circuit. "Gain" is similar to the "Resonance" control in a FVC, i.e. it is an overall feedback around the whole loop. So (roughly speaking) "Gain" is what makes the circuit oscillate, "Damping" is what keeps the oscillations from running out of control, and "NL Drive" defines how the chaos is formed.
I put the "Modulation" control in just by trial-and-error. It could be included in the equation but would make it quite a bit more complicated. It's an anything-goes input, but to explore how it works just feed it a LFO signal and watch (or listen to) how the chaotic pattern changes.
Hope this helps. Understanding the math is not trivial. In fact, most of the time you cannot predict whether a system is chaotic without doing numerical simulations of its behavior. In other words, you can't just look at equations and tell.
Ian |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
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Location: nyc
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RF
Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1502
Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:50 am Post subject:
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| loss1234 wrote: | | does feeding back into this circuit damage it? ( i ask because i was wondering if you could set up a loop from x y or z back INTO mod in...) |
Well it's my guess you've already discovered it's fine to do that, loss1234.
I finished the Jerkster late last night and was up for hours just watching what happens to lissajou patterns on the scope as you adjust the controls and add various forms of modulation!
loss - you owe it to yourself to beg or borrow a scope with X-Y inputs for a couple days just for that.
Thanks again for a great circuit, Ian Fritz! |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:40 am Post subject:
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| RF wrote: | | I finished the Jerkster late last night and was up for hours just watching what happens to lissajou patterns on the scope as you adjust the controls and add various forms of modulation! |
Whew, you are fast! Glad to hear it's running. Did you have to put in the extra resistor to get decent sized patterns?
I was up late looking at Lissajous also, these from my new system. I always think it's a good idea not to get too carried away with "scope art", but who can resist?
As far as unusual feedback configurations, I don't think you will hurt anything. This is another reason to design with high input impedance and low output impedance -- you can usually connect anything to anything else. With 1k output resistors, you can usually also connect outputs together to mix them. Just watch out for the designs that are showing up lately with attenuators on the outputs and large output impedances. You never know what you will get when you start patching those together.
Ian |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
Posts: 1536
Location: nyc
Audio files: 41
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:23 am Post subject:
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i almost won a scope auction last week but lost toward the end. i am still trying to find another one on ebay!!
anyway, i am having great luck feeding the output of one of the x y or z outputs into a comparator and then taking the output from the comparator and using it as a trigger or gate. The chaos works really well as a temporal signal! then the complex patterns really become more "useful" with regular melodic lines as a way to chop up the beat.
anyway...
_________________
-------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:54 am Post subject:
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| loss1234 wrote: | | anyway, i am having great luck feeding the output of one of the x y or z outputs into a comparator and then taking the output from the comparator and using it as a trigger or gate. The chaos works really well as a temporal signal! then the complex patterns really become more "useful" with regular melodic lines as a way to chop up the beat. |
Yes, I have found that too. That was my motivation for developing the TGTSH module. There are just many more possible applications with this approach. You might try feeding the trigger you get from the comparator into a S/H that samples one of the other outputs. You get some interesting correlations that way.
Ian |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
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RF
Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1502
Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject:
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| frijitz wrote: | | Did you have to put in the extra resistor to get decent sized patterns? |
I left it off and it worked perfectly. I may plug one in there just to see what happens but there doesn't seem to be any problem.
I experienced one of my simple pleasures with this circuit - build it, apply power, and the thing runs perfectly. No trimmers or fussy set up.
I spent a little time this morning running it at higher speeds into the VCO and just triggering the VCF and VCA off of clock while adjusting for various scope patterns. Got a wide variety of sounds, from 'industrial hammering' and clanking to clean xylophone-like sounds... to very 'bell' like.
It's still on the bench with pots and jumper clips - but I'm off to the garage to cut some panel holes.
bruce |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
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Location: nyc
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RF
Joined: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 1502
Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:41 am Post subject:
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OK - It took a while to get the Jerkster paneled - but here it is.
This is a really interesting module - and driving it with the EZ Chaos makes it just plain crazy |
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