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blue hell
Site Admin

Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24476 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 298
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:00 am Post subject:
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funkyfarm wrote: | I have a stupid question about LFO RATE Leds (green/red) and clicks in audio path... |
Not stupid at all, the causes for clicks can be pretty hard to find.
Quote: | What makes the clicks audible ?
putting some LEDs onto frontpanel ?
or LFO circuitry itself (lying next to audio circuit) ?
I mean : if no LED, no click ? |
Could be that removing the LEDs gets rid of the clicks, you'll have to try that.
Other causes can indeed be audio wires running close to the LFO circuit or wires, this could maybe be tested by moving the wires around to see if things change.
Also it is possible that the clicks ripple through the power supply, for that it would be best to get in some isolation with a couple of small resistors (like 22E) in the power lines of the LFO circuit together with some 100n or so caps to ground - best on the side that goes to the supply.
But you'll have to experiment  _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:21 am Post subject:
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funkyfarm wrote: | (everybody can see my awfull and temporary setup in Photos of what you've built with JH PCBs thread...)
I have a stupid question about LFO RATE Leds (green/red) and clicks in audio path...
What makes the clicks audible ?
putting some LEDs onto frontpanel ?
or LFO circuitry itself (lying next to audio circuit) ?
I mean : if no LED, no click ?
thank you,
ff |
Do you have a click in the audio (I'd be surprised if you did!), or are you just asking for precautions not to end up with clicks ?
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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funkyfarm

Joined: Jan 21, 2007 Posts: 583 Location: France
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject:
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(I'm not afraid at all but) yes, i guess i can hear some clicks, when lfo Rate reaches a certain point...
I'm sure that with some more careful wiring everything will be alright.
But i've started wondering what causes clicks in the audio path (how silly I am) : LED itself (brief current load ? small drop voltage or else ?) or the presence of the lfo circuitry (next to audio).
BlueHell, i've put 22R/22uF network for power supply, i even get some ferrite beads recently (if needed).
As I know i'm guilty on this project, consider this request as precautions not to end up with clicks.  |
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject:
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At the low end of the sweep range, the ladder is rather high-impedance.
so it would be a good idea to keep LED wires away from the ladder to avoid capacitive coupling.
But you can check this by temporarily disconnecting the LEDs (on the PCB side!).
If the wires to the LED are what causes the click, and you don't have enough room to place them far enough from the transitor arrays & capacitors, you could still shield these wires.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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funkyfarm

Joined: Jan 21, 2007 Posts: 583 Location: France
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Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: | At the low end of the sweep range, the ladder is rather high-impedance. |
that's a real scoop for me.
really appreciated.
(i use no shielded wire, and understand clicks can come from lfo, led and even wires from pcb to LED ; that's a lot of possibilities for a simple click. this scares me now ) |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005 Posts: 875 Location: Swiss
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G2 patch files: 5
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:50 pm Post subject:
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Funky40 wrote: |
the 33PF caps: can they be ceramic ? I mean the cheap wheels......scheiben.
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Yes, they are meant to be ceramic. They just roll of the very high frequencies and help keeping the opamps stable.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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haima
Joined: Jul 25, 2008 Posts: 40 Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:47 am Post subject:
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Jürgen - i don't know if this is the right place to ask, but do you have any tau boards left?
if not, you are planning on making a "core tau board" for the dim TD project aren't you - so i suppose i could use those?
thanks, and sorry to bother you with these kinds of questions!
haima |
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject:
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haima wrote: | Jürgen - i don't know if this is the right place to ask, but do you have any tau boards left?
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Yes - please send me an email using the order form I've posted.
http://electro-music.com/forum/post-199231.html#199231
(Just added here, where it's easier to find than scrolling thru a long thread)
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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numbertalk

Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject:
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Hi Juergen,
For the Compact Phasing clone you mention if using an 18VAC wall wart to up the 470uf caps to 1000uf/50V - does the same need to be done if using a wall wart for the Tau?
Also any tips on setting the 3 trimmers?
Thanks. |
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject:
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numbertalk wrote: | Hi Juergen,
For the Compact Phasing clone you mention if using an 18VAC wall wart to up the 470uf caps to 1000uf/50V - does the same need to be done if using a wall wart for the Tau?
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No. I even ran my Tau from a Wallwart with less than (nominal) 15V AC.
Haven't tested it on mains undervoltage, though.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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numbertalk

Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:50 am Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: | In my Tau, I'm using a 100k "Pull Pot" for resonance.
The formerly 220k is changed to 180k on the board,
The 100k resonance pot has a 20k (final value tbd) resistor in series with its cw end. (i.e., cw end of pot goes to 20k resistor, 20k resistor goes to board connector.)
The switch of the pull pot is connected to short the 20k resistor, when the knob is pulled out. So I get nice high resonance *without* oscillation with the knob pushed in, and screaming oscillation when pulled out. |
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but when you say you short the 20K resistor, you are somehow bypassing it with switch, when the knob is pulled out, correct? Could you tell me how exactly the switch part of this pot is wired - if a SPST what are the 2 switch lugs connected to (or not connected)?
Also, did you keep this as a 20K pot (you say final value tbd).
Thanks. |
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:00 am Post subject:
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numbertalk wrote: | jhaible wrote: | In my Tau, I'm using a 100k "Pull Pot" for resonance.
The formerly 220k is changed to 180k on the board,
The 100k resonance pot has a 20k (final value tbd) resistor in series with its cw end. (i.e., cw end of pot goes to 20k resistor, 20k resistor goes to board connector.)
The switch of the pull pot is connected to short the 20k resistor, when the knob is pulled out. So I get nice high resonance *without* oscillation with the knob pushed in, and screaming oscillation when pulled out. |
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but when you say you short the 20K resistor, you are somehow bypassing it with switch, when the knob is pulled out, correct? Could you tell me how exactly the switch part of this pot is wired - if a SPST what are the 2 switch lugs connected to (or not connected)?
Also, did you keep this as a 20K pot (you say final value tbd).
Thanks. |
The cw end of the pot is not connected directly, but via a 20k resistor.
The Pull operation of the swich does bypass the 20k resistor.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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numbertalk

Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:10 am Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: |
The cw end of the pot is not connected directly, but via a 20k resistor.
The Pull operation of the swich does bypass the 20k resistor. |
So, again, forgive me if I'm being a bit thick, but while I do understand the cw lug connecting to a 20K resistor and the other lead of that resistor connecting to the board where the cw lug originally connected to the board, but then how is that bypassed with the pot switch exactly? Is the cw lug also wired to one pole of the switch with the other pole connected to another point on the board? If so where on the board exactly? I've never actually used a switched pot before (but would like to as this seems an elegant way to do this) so this might be part of my problem - I'm imagining the switch works separately from the 3 pot lugs (that it doesn't do any switching between any of the 3 pot lugs) but does the switch actually switch between 1 or more lugs or something like that? Tried to find data sheets for switched pots or any explanations online but with no luck.
Thanks for the help. |
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject:
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numbertalk wrote: | jhaible wrote: |
The cw end of the pot is not connected directly, but via a 20k resistor.
The Pull operation of the swich does bypass the 20k resistor. |
So, again, forgive me if I'm being a bit thick, but while I do understand the cw lug connecting to a 20K resistor and the other lead of that resistor connecting to the board where the cw lug originally connected to the board, but then how is that bypassed with the pot switch exactly? Is the cw lug also wired to one pole of the switch with the other pole connected to another point on the board? If so where on the board exactly? I've never actually used a switched pot before (but would like to as this seems an elegant way to do this) so this might be part of my problem - I'm imagining the switch works separately from the 3 pot lugs (that it doesn't do any switching between any of the 3 pot lugs) but does the switch actually switch between 1 or more lugs or something like that? Tried to find data sheets for switched pots or any explanations online but with no luck.
Thanks for the help. |
You connect the switch parallel to the (off board) 20k resistor, such that closing the switch does bypass that resistor.
Doesn't matter whether this is a separate switch, or built into the potentiometer ...
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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numbertalk

Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:43 am Post subject:
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Thanks!
jhaible wrote: | numbertalk wrote: | jhaible wrote: |
The cw end of the pot is not connected directly, but via a 20k resistor.
The Pull operation of the swich does bypass the 20k resistor. |
So, again, forgive me if I'm being a bit thick, but while I do understand the cw lug connecting to a 20K resistor and the other lead of that resistor connecting to the board where the cw lug originally connected to the board, but then how is that bypassed with the pot switch exactly? Is the cw lug also wired to one pole of the switch with the other pole connected to another point on the board? If so where on the board exactly? I've never actually used a switched pot before (but would like to as this seems an elegant way to do this) so this might be part of my problem - I'm imagining the switch works separately from the 3 pot lugs (that it doesn't do any switching between any of the 3 pot lugs) but does the switch actually switch between 1 or more lugs or something like that? Tried to find data sheets for switched pots or any explanations online but with no luck.
Thanks for the help. |
You connect the switch parallel to the (off board) 20k resistor, such that closing the switch does bypass that resistor.
Doesn't matter whether this is a separate switch, or built into the potentiometer ...
JH. |
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funkyfarm

Joined: Jan 21, 2007 Posts: 583 Location: France
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numbertalk

Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:42 am Post subject:
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Hi,
EDIT - Just found in the thread where you say you can use something like a 500R or 1K pot in series for the V/Oct adjustment - would this be linear taper?
I can't quite make it out on the page on your site (and it seems Bill & Will reference 2 different values for this - 1M and A10K) - could you tell me what value and taper of pot to use to fine tune CV in/V/Oct from the front panel? Looks like a 1K to me on your site but if so what taper?
Thanks! |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005 Posts: 875 Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 5
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:27 am Post subject:
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In the meantime i have two Tau Phasers running and i got somewhat the hang for it.
FANTASTIC Module, i Love it !
It brought my Modularsynth one step further.
but it takes some time to know it good.
It reacts REALLY different to different sounds.
My first Phasers in my Synth, and the first Phaser i really like.
I'm very glad to have one, ...öhmmm two
It makes IMO sense to have two btw.
Thanks Jürgen ! |
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b-funk

Joined: Jul 17, 2007 Posts: 193 Location: Berlin
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Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:40 am Post subject:
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I told you so!!!  |
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject:
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numbertalk wrote: | Hi,
EDIT - Just found in the thread where you say you can use something like a 500R or 1K pot in series for the V/Oct adjustment - would this be linear taper?
I can't quite make it out on the page on your site (and it seems Bill & Will reference 2 different values for this - 1M and A10K) - could you tell me what value and taper of pot to use to fine tune CV in/V/Oct from the front panel? Looks like a 1K to me on your site but if so what taper?
Thanks! |
1k linear taper.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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numbertalk

Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 992 Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:40 am Post subject:
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Thanks!
jhaible wrote: | numbertalk wrote: | Hi,
EDIT - Just found in the thread where you say you can use something like a 500R or 1K pot in series for the V/Oct adjustment - would this be linear taper?
I can't quite make it out on the page on your site (and it seems Bill & Will reference 2 different values for this - 1M and A10K) - could you tell me what value and taper of pot to use to fine tune CV in/V/Oct from the front panel? Looks like a 1K to me on your site but if so what taper?
Thanks! |
1k linear taper.
JH. |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005 Posts: 875 Location: Swiss
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G2 patch files: 5
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject:
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Hello Jürgen,
I like to modifie the LFO on my Tau.
The answer how to slow down i found here
The main point is that i like to close the modulation depth to zero ( or close to zereo ). It does not now.
the other point is that i not only like to have the LFO slower, i also like to have it faster.
How to do this ? |
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jhaible

Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject:
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Funky40 wrote: | Hello Jürgen,
I like to modifie the LFO on my Tau.
The answer how to slow down i found here
The main point is that i like to close the modulation depth to zero ( or close to zereo ). It does not now.
the other point is that i not only like to have the LFO slower, i also like to have it faster.
How to do this ? |
Referring to http://www.jhaible.heim.at/tau/jh_tau_sch_page3_control.pdf , to make the LFO faster, decrease R66 and/or C54. (This only shifts the whole range of LFO rates up to higher values.)
Then you probably want to extend the LFO rate range on the low side, by decreasing R67.
R67 can only be made smaller until you get offset problems from U6A.
You can then use a low offset FET-input opamp instead of the TL072.
(LF412, or something better.)
Don't bother to replace the opamp *unless* you actually run into offset problems from decreasing R67.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005 Posts: 875 Location: Swiss
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject:
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thanks Jürgen, i will try.
Better than LF412 ? I assume the LT1013 would be one.
How about the modulation depth, how can i close this to Zero or minimise it.
Now i have by default allways a Modulation.
Perfect for common Phaser use, but not for modularsynth experiments. |
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