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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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 Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject:
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| Funky40 wrote: | I have two small Issues:
1. I don't understand the Manual switch wiring. I did wrong finally.
I took a DPDT swicth and wired Pin1 of the Header to both middlepins of teh switch ,
then Pin 2 and 3 to the same end of the switch to different poles . That caused problems
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Strange. What you describe is how it should be.
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/compact_clone/jh_krautrock_phaser_sch.pdf
| Quote: |
2. The bypass switch is now installed.
I see now that the direct signal has much more Level than the Phaser output.
Seems to be no trimmer there for the level. Did i issed something ?
How could i increase the Phaser outputlevel ( the modulation pot settings don't affect the gain ) |
Phaser level and Bypass level should be about the same. (Withing 6dB or so)
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 875
Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 5
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject:
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| jhaible wrote: | | Funky40 wrote: | I have two small Issues:
1. I don't understand the Manual switch wiring. I did wrong finally.
I took a DPDT swicth and wired Pin1 of the Header to both middlepins of teh switch ,
then Pin 2 and 3 to the same end of the switch to different poles . That caused problems
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Strange. What you describe is how it should be.
http://www.jhaible.heim.at/compact_clone/jh_krautrock_phaser_sch.pdf
JH. |
I had one more look. It seems to work, indeed, but in a funny wise:
when switching to manual, it takes lots of time that the manual control really works.
= it works after a little time, but only with little little depth, this increases then over several seconds to get full manual control.
1. is this normal behave ?
2. my Lamps inside are protected with a "hat". "Karton" with several Layers of gaffa tape should have no light coming thru,
but i did not fixed it on the bottom of the PCB . The "hat" is only taped down, so it might have a little seam.
maybe thats a problem, i don't know
about the level i must make a Demo the next days,
also about above described behave.
very appreciated your help and all the passion Jürgen ! |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:21 pm Post subject:
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| Funky40 wrote: |
I had one more look. It seems to work, indeed, but in a funny wise:
when switching to manual, it takes lots of time that the manual control really works.
= it works after a little time, but only with little little depth, this increases then over several seconds to get full manual control.
1. is this normal behave ?
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No.
Please check R14. This should be 1k.
Your description sounds like you have 1Meg in here.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 875
Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 5
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:28 pm Post subject:
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| jhaible wrote: | Please check R14. This should be 1k.
Your description sounds like you have 1Meg in here.
JH. |
it is 1K |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:46 pm Post subject:
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| Funky40 wrote: | | jhaible wrote: | Please check R14. This should be 1k.
Your description sounds like you have 1Meg in here.
JH. |
it is 1K |
Hmm. Wrong guess, then. 1meg would have explained it so nicely. 
So ...
When you close the switch, the output of U4 (pin6) doesn't jump quickly to a high voltage, then? It should, because the low impedance path (1k) from the negative supply rail (= GND on this IC) to the inverting integrator summing node should override anything that comes from the hysteretic switch (U3), and drive the integrator to its upper limit ...
What you describe looks like there is such a path, but high impedance, certainly not 1k. Bad soder joint on the switch, or on the MANUAL connector, maybe?
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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moosapotamus
Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 113
Location: New Hampshire USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:16 pm Post subject:
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| jhaible wrote: |
I think I see the problem. If everything was ok with a dual secondary transformer, then there should be no problem with a wall wart either - except you need twice the current than before over one fuse now.
So simply put a bigger fuse in there. Try 500mA.
JH. |
That works. 
Thanks
~ Charlie
_________________
moosapotamus.net
"I tend to like anything that I think sounds good" |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 875
Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 5
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:55 pm Post subject:
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| jhaible wrote: |
When you close the switch, the output of U4 (pin6) doesn't jump quickly to a high voltage, then?
JH. |
yes !
i will check the soldering, but i never had any bad solderjoint.
i try to make a demo.
query:
could it be that this "switchproblem" affects the whole sound ?
I was never so happy as others seem to be with the Schulte sound.
ahhh well, i make a Demo the next days.
Sawwave pure into Schulte clone, hope thats good ( ? ) |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:33 pm Post subject:
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| Funky40 wrote: | | jhaible wrote: |
When you close the switch, the output of U4 (pin6) doesn't jump quickly to a high voltage, then?
JH. |
yes !
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Then that part is ok! (It is supposed to jump up.)
| Quote: |
Sawwave pure into Schulte clone, hope thats good ( ? ) |
Mellotron would be nice. 
String synthesizer, too.
Polyphonic sounds are best with the Compact A, IMO.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:15 pm Post subject:
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Selling one of my two prototypes
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160338167946
This may be interesting for those who aren't into soldering that much.
You still need all the off-board components (switches, jacks, mains transformer
etc.), though.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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JoeMorris
Joined: Apr 26, 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:06 pm Post subject:
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Looks like my streak of beginners luck has well and truly run out. after my dim d failure, i thought i'd try and finish the krautrock to raise the morale before i tried the long tortuous troubleshoot. unfortunately it had the opposite effect as this doesnt work either! (I have only been testing to see if the lights work so far as I havent enclosed it)
however there are a few things i might have done wrong...
when I first plugged it in, the front panel lamp lit up (constantly), although not the two other lamps. This is the only sign of life ive seen so far.
I hadnt put in the jumper wires (I hadnt noticed them) and the switch I had wired up was not the required momentary type, but a simple toggle switch.
I'm using a wallwart, but my smoothing caps are only 470uf (I only just saw that itd be good to put bigger values in).
I put in the jumper wires and tried again, and now even the front lamp doesnt light up, let alone the others.
The led doesnt light either. (Which way round should this be wired?)
Could any of these mistakes have caused anything to fail?
Excuse my extraordinary ignorance, but how do I check the IC supply voltages with a multimeter? Set to DC voltage, one probe goes on the pin in question, where do I put the other as im afraid of blowing something if I get it wrong..? I realise this is playschool stuff, sorry but Im trying to learn as I go...
Or is it just a case of getting the momentary switch and then itll work properly?
Any pointers much appreciated. |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24488
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 298
G2 patch files: 320
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:26 pm Post subject:
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| JoeMorris wrote: | | how do I check the IC supply voltages with a multimeter? Set to DC voltage, one probe goes on the pin in question, where do I put the other as im afraid of blowing something if I get it wrong..? |
You'll not blow anything that way, voltage measurements are harmless to the circuit.
Tradition says that voltages are measured with respect to ground. If you have an auoto polarity DMM just connect the black wire to ground and measure around with the red one, negative voltages will just show up with a minus sign in front then.
_________________
Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject:
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| JoeMorris wrote: |
Could any of these mistakes have caused anything to fail?
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No.
Maybe you could have burned the LED when run backwards, but nothing else.
LED orientation:
http://www.jhaible.de/compact_clone/jh_krautrock_phaser_sch.pdf
Anode goes to R76, which goes to +supply voltage.
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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JoeMorris
Joined: Apr 26, 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:24 pm Post subject:
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OK - we are one step closer now JH...
After seeing the picture of how you wired up your two wire test supply on your site I noticed that you had both the wires at the opposite end to me. (the right end in the picture, I had the two in the left end).
With my limited knowledge I thought that the end two on either side would be fine, but surprisingly I (for me) I tried it and suddenly everything springs into life. But then I hook it up and no sound.
So the situation Im in, is now all the lamps work perfectly and respond to the pots, the bypass led works, I can hear the bypass relay working, the manual switch does what you'd expect to the lamps and all the jacks look good and wired up right.
But the only sound I get is out of the left out, when the feedback out is high, I get a wailing sound that bears no relationship to what I'm putting in, its just a simple tone that does follow the oscillation of the lamps. But no other sound out in normal or bypass mode.
I gather that the modulation circuits are probably working and creating that high pitched wail just from background noise (perhaps?)
And I presume the problem lies in the signal in area.
Could I have fried something when I put the power in the first way? |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:07 pm Post subject:
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| JoeMorris wrote: | OK - we are one step closer now JH...
After seeing the picture of how you wired up your two wire test supply on your site I noticed that you had both the wires at the opposite end to me. (the right end in the picture, I had the two in the left end).
With my limited knowledge I thought that the end two on either side would be fine, but surprisingly I (for me) I tried it and suddenly everything springs into life. But then I hook it up and no sound.
So the situation Im in, is now all the lamps work perfectly and respond to the pots, the bypass led works, I can hear the bypass relay working, the manual switch does what you'd expect to the lamps and all the jacks look good and wired up right.
But the only sound I get is out of the left out, when the feedback out is high, I get a wailing sound that bears no relationship to what I'm putting in, its just a simple tone that does follow the oscillation of the lamps. But no other sound out in normal or bypass mode.
I gather that the modulation circuits are probably working and creating that high pitched wail just from background noise (perhaps?)
And I presume the problem lies in the signal in area.
Could I have fried something when I put the power in the first way? |
You get the wail even when the feedback is turned down?
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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JoeMorris
Joined: Apr 26, 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:15 am Post subject:
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| no, just when it hits a certain point and above (it then increases in volume as you turn the feedback up to full).... |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:34 am Post subject:
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| JoeMorris wrote: | | no, just when it hits a certain point and above (it then increases in volume as you turn the feedback up to full).... |
Set R60 (http://www.jhaible.de/compact_clone/jh_krautrock_phaser_sch.pdf) such that the wailing disappears with Resonance potentiometer at maximum. (Or that it just appears at the very cw end of the Resonance potentiometer.)
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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JoeMorris
Joined: Apr 26, 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:24 am Post subject:
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| I'm not getting any other sound though either... |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:36 am Post subject:
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| JoeMorris wrote: | | I'm not getting any other sound though either... |
Trace the signal (input 1Vpp, 1kHz) thru all stages with a scope.
Where does it dissapear?
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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JoeMorris
Joined: Apr 26, 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:55 am Post subject:
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| I dont have a scope... I guess Im gonna have to try and get access to one somehow then if Im to stand any chance of getting to the bottom of this? |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:56 am Post subject:
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| JoeMorris wrote: | | I dont have a scope... I guess Im gonna have to try and get access to one somehow then if Im to stand any chance of getting to the bottom of this? |
I think a scope is very important for DIY. Sure, you can get away without one if you're not making the slightest mistake, but once you have to debug ... it's hard to imagine how to work without a scope.
Hmm, only half the story, actually. I worked without a scope for years, tracing signals with a small amplifier and an earphone ... I could get a lot of information "by ear". But today ... small analogue scopes should be inexpensive, so why even try to do it without one?
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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JoeMorris
Joined: Apr 26, 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:41 am Post subject:
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Fair comment, I guess I should take the step up to being a proper DIY head if Im gonna do it at all...
I think Ill start with a DIY audio probe for now, and invest in an oscilloscope if I can afford it....
Anyone know where to get one cheap? |
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numbertalk
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 992
Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5
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| Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:59 am Post subject:
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| JoeMorris wrote: | Fair comment, I guess I should take the step up to being a proper DIY head if Im gonna do it at all...
I think Ill start with a DIY audio probe for now, and invest in an oscilloscope if I can afford it....
Anyone know where to get one cheap? |
Hey Joe,
Not sure if you meant a cheap scope or an audio probe - you probably already have the audio probe covered but if not here's an easy one:
http://geofex.com/FX_images/audioprb.gif |
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magman
Joined: Feb 04, 2009
Posts: 363
Location: Liverpool, UK
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:05 am Post subject:
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| JoeMorris wrote: |
Anyone know where to get one cheap? |
Joe,
A good place to start is Stewart of Reading, here:
http://www.stewart-of-reading.co.uk/
They have used scopes from £50 plus VAT and have been trading for years. I've not bought from them personally (not needed to yet), but I might be tempted in the near future.
Regards
Magman |
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JoeMorris
Joined: Apr 26, 2009
Posts: 161
Location: Brighton
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:09 pm Post subject:
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Thanks, I may well go for that...
For now though, I built an audio test probe and discovered a very simple and embarassing thing wrong with both my dim d and compact phaser...
The jacks Ive been using have lugs either side of the jack which I thought were interchangeable but it turns out they are switching jacks and I'd been wiring them to the side that gets broken when you put a jack in! Major major doh.
The upshot of this is that my compact phasing worked with the lid off (except no real phasing because I havent wrapped the ldrs in tape, as I have a lightproof enclosure)... hooray...
Then, as I sorted it out to put the lid down on my enclosure, everything stopped - all the lights went out, in my moment
triumph, and now there's no sign of life again. I havent got my multimeter at the moment either...
Gah.
What do we think, a cold solder joint, or could something have blown? |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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| Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject:
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| JoeMorris wrote: | Thanks, I may well go for that...
For now though, I built an audio test probe and discovered a very simple and embarassing thing wrong with both my dim d and compact phaser...
The jacks Ive been using have lugs either side of the jack which I thought were interchangeable but it turns out they are switching jacks and I'd been wiring them to the side that gets broken when you put a jack in! Major major doh.
The upshot of this is that my compact phasing worked with the lid off (except no real phasing because I havent wrapped the ldrs in tape, as I have a lightproof enclosure)... hooray...
Then, as I sorted it out to put the lid down on my enclosure, everything stopped - all the lights went out, in my moment
triumph, and now there's no sign of life again. I havent got my multimeter at the moment either...
Gah.
What do we think, a cold solder joint, or could something have blown? |
If you have shorted anything to GND ... heat sinks for instance ...
JH.
_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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