electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Streaming now
go to the radio page Live at electro-music.com radio 1 Please visit the chat
  host / artist show at your time
<on air> Various Artists NYE concert
poster
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
CV for vactrol rhythmic patterns?
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: mosc
Page 2 of 2 [38 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2
Author Message
RingMad



Joined: Jan 15, 2011
Posts: 429
Location: Montreal, Canada
Audio files: 4

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Grumble wrote:
I use an Arduino using SPI to control the position of the runner of the DCP.


Ah yes of course, I was just thinking of logic chips and forgot you were talking about an Arduino.

I don't plan on using one for any synth/Lunetta applications, but if others are interested and you wrote a piece about the module, I would certainly read it...

.:James:.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 5883
Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 709

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PHOBoS wrote:
zloth wrote:
Whilst on the subject of DACs, has anyone tried using outputs from a 4026/4033/40110 with other clocks into a DAC to create unusual "polyrhythms" or would that not work from a technical point of view?

Never used any of those chips to control one directly but it might actually be nice to make a simple module using one
similar to a binary and digital counter/divider.

and so I did: 4543 7-segment decoder Cool

_________________
"My perf, it's full of holes!"
http://phobos.000space.com/
SoundCloud BandCamp MixCloud Stickney Synthyards Captain Collider Twitch YouTube
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
gasboss775



Joined: Jan 02, 2016
Posts: 217
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is probably the best solution.

Its a 4 bit R2R feeding a voltage to current converter to drive the led. This is the best way to drive LEDs when variable brightness is required as the circuit automatically overcomes the Vf of the LED using negative feedback.


R2R and LED Driver.png
 Description:
 Filesize:  64.79 KB
 Viewed:  383 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

R2R and LED Driver.png


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gasboss775



Joined: Jan 02, 2016
Posts: 217
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Using a binary counter and a 7 segment decoder to provide a complex modulation waveform


Screenshot_2017-04-27-00-45-38.png
 Description:
 Filesize:  42.04 KB
 Viewed:  396 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

Screenshot_2017-04-27-00-45-38.png


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 5883
Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 709

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

what kind of decoder did you simulate to get 16 different steps ?
I looked at some datasheets but they all had blank outputs above 9 (10 steps). I do recall seeing one which did have
valid outputs above 9, but I can't remember which one it was.

I was thinking of making it into a synth module with potentiometers on the outputs (like a sequencer) but realized that
it is much easier to get the same results with a standard 10 (or more) step sequencer. I might experiment a bit more with
it as a suboscillator though, maybe add a switch for some different presets. I guess the easiest thing to use for that is some
muxes controlled by a single switch, that could possibly create 12 different ones with a standard rotary switch.

_________________
"My perf, it's full of holes!"
http://phobos.000space.com/
SoundCloud BandCamp MixCloud Stickney Synthyards Captain Collider Twitch YouTube
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
gasboss775



Joined: Jan 02, 2016
Posts: 217
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PHOBoS wrote:
what kind of decoder did you simulate to get 16 different steps ?
I looked at some datasheets but they all had blank outputs above 9 (10 steps). I do recall seeing one which did have
valid outputs above 9, but I can't remember which one it was.

I was thinking of making it into a synth module with potentiometers on the outputs (like a sequencer) but realized that
it is much easier to get the same results with a standard 10 (or more) step sequencer. I might experiment a bit more with
it as a suboscillator though, maybe add a switch for some different presets. I guess the easiest thing to use for that is some
muxes controlled by a single switch, that could possibly create 12 different ones with a standard rotary switch.


Aha, I wondered if someone might spot this!

The parts in the simulator are generic. It would seem that it is a binary to hexadecimal decoder, which I think may exist but I'm unsure of a part Number or if such a thing is readily available.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gasboss775



Joined: Jan 02, 2016
Posts: 217
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have amended the circuit so that the counter resets at count=10 in other words a decade/BCD counter.


R2R and LED Driver(1).png
 Description:
 Filesize:  39.12 KB
 Viewed:  391 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

R2R and LED Driver(1).png


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 5883
Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 709

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's how I created the 10 steps too but it initially didn't work. The problem was that it would reset as soon as D becomes
high, so it only counted 8 steps. I had the same results with a CD4029 and a CD4040. To solve this I had to introduce a small
delay between output D and the AND gate which I did by chaining 4 gates in series. I used XNOR gates which is what I had
available in my modular lunetta but I guess using the remaing AND gates could have worked as well. Of course if you use
one of those chips with a built in counter it gets a bit easier.

I am actually wondering at the moment how hard it would be to create a reset at any given number of step >2 by uing the
a-g outputs. It is doable but might require a lot of gates. Looks like it could be a nice puzzle though.

_________________
"My perf, it's full of holes!"
http://phobos.000space.com/
SoundCloud BandCamp MixCloud Stickney Synthyards Captain Collider Twitch YouTube
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
gasboss775



Joined: Jan 02, 2016
Posts: 217
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PHOBoS wrote:
That's how I created the 10 steps too but it initially didn't work. The problem was that it would reset as soon as D becomes
high, so it only counted 8 steps. I had the same results with a CD4029 and a CD4040. To solve this I had to introduce a small
delay between output D and the AND gate which I did by chaining 4 gates in series. I used XNOR gates which is what I had
available in my modular lunetta but I guess using the remaining AND gates could have worked as well.


I'm guessing that the problem is down to differing propagational delays in the counter, resulting in the "2" output still being high very briefly when the counter flips from count "7" to count "8" something that might work is putting a little RC delay circuit between the AND gate and the reset input of the counter. This saves on having to use up gates, but if you've got spare gates you may as well use them for that.

I've also got some of those 4026 chips with the counter & decoder in one. I seem to recall buying quite a few of them because they were very cheap at the time ( 10p ) as one of the UK component retailers were selling off all of their 4000B CMOS chips. I even managed to snatch a few 4006's Very Happy before they became super rare and super expensive! Evil or Very Mad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 5883
Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 709

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

gasboss775 wrote:
I'm guessing that the problem is down to differing propagational delays in the counter, resulting in the "2" output still being high very briefly when the counter flips from count "7" to count "8" something that might work is putting a little RC delay circuit between the AND gate and the reset input of the counter. This saves on having to use up gates, but if you've got spare gates you may as well use them for that.

I think that is indeed what is causing it and normally I would use an RC network. But I don't seem to have a module for that (maybe
I should build a small delay module) so the gates seem to be a good alternative.

I came up with a circuit to select the number of steps using the a-g outputs. I first checked if there where any redundant outputs
and with that I mean outputs that are not necessary to determine the current step. Turns out that c and d can be left out so that
made things a bit easier. I haven't tested it so don't know if it will work and there might be a better solution. Another option would
be the seperate counter+decoder and convert the binary to decimal to select the number of steps, which could be done with a single
4 bit mux, but the chip count would stay the same and then you might have to add some extra delays again.

I was also thinking that instead of using presets a simple way would be to add 8-position switches to the inputs of the R2R
connected to the 7 outputs a-g (+ an off setting). It would take up more panel space though so I will do some test to see
what is useful. (this would be a for a dedicated subosc synth module btw)

reset for 4 steps doesn't work in this version, updated version posted below


7-segment reset select.gif
 Description:
 Filesize:  63.79 KB
 Viewed:  378 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

7-segment reset select.gif



_________________
"My perf, it's full of holes!"
http://phobos.000space.com/
SoundCloud BandCamp MixCloud Stickney Synthyards Captain Collider Twitch YouTube

Last edited by PHOBoS on Sun May 07, 2017 6:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
gasboss775



Joined: Jan 02, 2016
Posts: 217
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Another thing that I've tried is to put XOR gates ahead of the R2R one input is from a counter, etc and the other input is connected to a switch. The switch then decides whether the signal is buffered or inverted.

I was thinking of doing this with the 7 segment output going into an R2R. Not sure whether to have a 7 bit R2R or a 4 bit R2R with the option of picking which of the 7 outputs is routed to the R2R inputs via the XOR buffer/inverters.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gasboss775



Joined: Jan 02, 2016
Posts: 217
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is a schematic just to clarify what I was meaning in my last post:


2017-04-29_19.09.33.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  124.35 KB
 Viewed:  350 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

2017-04-29_19.09.33.jpg


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PHOBoS



Joined: Jan 14, 2010
Posts: 5883
Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 709

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just tested the reset circuit and it almost worked except the reset for 4 steps; it resets on 2 steps instead.
In theory it should work but I decided to add an AND gate to the I/O pin of the second mux too. (I actually
had this in the first design and then figured out that it shouldn't be necessary) This AND gate would be
connected to outputs f and g of the CD4026. As with the other mux I was going to use 2 diodes and a resistor
but after I added the diode to output g it already worked. Shocked I am not sure why, but I have an LED display
connected to it so maybe the voltage drops a bit and therefor the reset doesn't properly work, I am using
4.7K series resistors for it though. It might also be caused by the mux itself.

Anyway, it seems to be working fine now so here is the updated version.


7-segment reset select V1_1.gif
 Description:
 Filesize:  64.69 KB
 Viewed:  333 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

7-segment reset select V1_1.gif



_________________
"My perf, it's full of holes!"
http://phobos.000space.com/
SoundCloud BandCamp MixCloud Stickney Synthyards Captain Collider Twitch YouTube
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: mosc
Page 2 of 2 [38 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use