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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Questions about pitch bend...
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Tusker



Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 110
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 1:10 pm    Post subject: Questions about pitch bend... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I noticed that for reasons of patching convenience, the G1 and the G2 appears to process pitch bend information before it hits the module area. There are a few pitch bend tricks that I’d like to do and I am wondering how I would accomplish them. I am using a G1, but I'd like to know if there is a difference in capability between the G1 and the G2 in this regard …

1- Using the pitch bend value as a modulation source, to either vary a parameter or control a morph. I assume I can extract this information as the difference between two kinds of information hitting some of the modules, but I’d appreciate it if someone could tell me which.

2- Developing an assymetric pitch bend, where the downward pitchbend is different from the upward. I assume I would extract pitch bend information as in the above case and subject it to some kind of logic test before modulating the oscillators with it. Again, I’m just not sure where to start.

3- Have a latch capability, so that pitch bend isn’t applied to the latched notes. Latching could be done with the sustain pedal or some kind of control input. This allows the performer to play polyphonically, but bend only selected notes, while letting others continue to ring in their original pitch, rather like a guitar.

Thanks in advance for any information you might provide,

Jerry
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jamos



Joined: Jun 01, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Tusker;

The keys to what you are looking for is to disable the built-in key tracking (KBT) on the oscillators and filters, and instead use the Keyboard module and its Note output. The Note output contains key info only, no bend; the Pitch output combines bend and key data (and is what is pre-patched to the KBT buttons.

There is a G2 patch I did in the GM section - Koto - that does what you ask for; bend is processed separately and is run through a sample/hold so it does not affect sustaining keys.
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davep



Joined: Jul 05, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

... just an addendum to Jamos' post - When using this technique, you need to also use the "Device" module to bring the pitch bend signal into the patch, separate from the keyboard NOTE data.

And I don' t think there is any way to do this type of thing on the NM1, only on the G2.

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blue hell
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

davep wrote:

And I don' t think there is any way to do this type of thing on the NM1, only on the G2.


On the Classic you can quantize the the output of the keyboard module with a note quantizer module. This will give you the note.

When you take the original note output and subtract it's quantized version you''l have the bend info separated.

There is a little quirk though with this. I remember that, it cost me some time then ... I think it's the following :

The quantizer rounds its input to an integral value and it should floor instead. If so : flooring can be accomplished by subtracting one half of a Clavia unit before entering the note quantizer.

When this is not the problem ... it is some symetry thing, symetry for sure, maybe then an around zero thing or something.

Anyway, I had it working once, iit can be done, and the proof is somewhere in the Classic archives .... which for now means .. lost.

Point 3 in the original post is an interesting question, very interesting :-)
(sorry, I don't know how to do it)

About point 2 ... I've never used downwards bends, my MIDI sax can do it but I can't. The above described solution for the Classic and the earlier descrbed solution for the G2 will handle it I think. Using a diode module you can split the negative signal from the positive - one set to be a positive rectifier, the other set to be a negative rectifier. You can then treat both signals in their own way, later mix them and apply them to something.

Point 1 - to subtract signals : on the G2 use a mix2-1b module with one input set to invert. On the Classic : use an invlevshift module to invert the signal to be subtracted and then add it with the signal to subtract from in a mixer module.

Jan.
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Tusker



Joined: Feb 03, 2005
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Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very helpful posts, thank you very much.

I found that on the classic, I can subtract note (keyboard voice module) from latest note (keyboard patch module) to give me the pitch bend information, in a monophonic patch. I can work with that limitation for now, and of course I'll try Jan's quantization trick.

Jan, that splitting of positive and negative is an eye opener to me. I wonder what uses it would have at audio rates? Some kind of waveshaping or frequency shifting technique seems to suggest itself. The mind boggles. Off to do some patching...

Cheers,

Jerry
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davep



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tusker wrote:


Jan, that splitting of positive and negative is an eye opener to me. I wonder what uses it would have at audio rates? Some kind of waveshaping or frequency shifting technique seems to suggest itself. The mind boggles. Off to do some patching...

Cheers,

Jerry



Yes indeed. We're off the original topic here, but what they hey -

When you use diode modules & level shifters/inverters to split the positive & negative halves of an audio wave, you can do all kinds of neat asymetrical distortion tricks, some subtle (like adding just a bit more overdrive to the positive half than the negative half) and some extreme (like completely different types of filtering & waveshaping for the top & bottom half).

A similar trick - connect an audio signal to both the main audio input and the MOD input of a panner module. Now route the two panner outputs to different signal shaping chains (like overdrive and wavewrapper or whatever), and combine the ends of these chains in a mixer. This will cause the positive half of the wave to get 'panned' to one chain, and when the wave swings negative, the negative half will get 'panned' to the other chain. BTW, you can do something similar using a crossfader instead of a panner.

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blue hell
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tusker wrote:

I found that on the classic, I can subtract note (keyboard voice module) from latest note (keyboard patch module) to give me the pitch bend information


Nice trick, didn't know that - easy one, I should remember that :-)

Jan.
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Axiom



Joined: Feb 19, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Question 2 was one of my targets to achive in the next weeks.. by now, I can only able to recognize when the wheel is up or down. I use your same trick, Jerry, working with note and latest note. Sadly we don't have a track and hold.. I say so because on Kurzweil I use a FUN trick to do this job (i've found it on JR Lead preset).. it works in this way:

as example we want to obtain a whole step upward and an octave downward.. in semitones are +2 and -12. I left general pitch bend to +2 and, then, working with FUNs.

FUN1a: ON FUN1b: PWheel FUN1 function: Track B while A

FUN2a: -ON FUN2b: FUN1 FUN2 function: a-b

Oscillator's pitch modulation source is FUN2 and the width is -1000ct (-10 semitones). With this function seems that all positive values will be discharged, so up bend is 2 semitones, while a -10 semitones is added to general -2 obtaining a -12 downward bend. I have to figure out a trick to do the same under our red devil.

see ya


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ik



Joined: Jan 30, 2005
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Location: North Carolina
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
3- Have a latch capability, so that pitch bend isn’t applied to the latched notes.


Here is a trick to apply pitchbend only to the highest or lowest note of a chord. In polyphonic mode only the high or low note changes with the woodstick, the rest of the notes of the chord remains unchanged.
ik.


PitchBend Trick1.pch2
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Apply pitchbend to the highest or lowest note of a chord (polyphonic mode)

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seanwayland



Joined: Jan 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject: pitch bend Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi there all ,
I thought of using the "note zone" feature in the midi group . To seperate each note onto a different midi channel.
If you could you make all the "D' notes in every octave recieve on midi channel 1 , then send a pitch bend on that channel only , then only "D" would bend (?) . If you had a controller with a few sliders , you could play a chord and bend any notes in it you wanted at will ....
is it possible ? How many "note zones" can you have ? One for each note ? Even if you could do it for a couple of octaves it would be pretty fun .. I was also thinking you might be able to assign each voice to a particular pitch and midi channel to do this ...
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