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The Alison Project
Joined: Jul 21, 2006 Posts: 187 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:10 am Post subject:
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This is impressive, the samples sound great... Hopefully I can handle building this when all is said and done. |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:32 am Post subject:
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Here's version 1.10 of the Gate Bus with the display LEDs included. Don't worry, once it's 'in the can', I'll post a PDF or zip with all of the current revs bundled together.
The Master Gate LED is kind of redundant - it will always flash in time with the clock LED from Clock and Load, but it's still handy to have that LED grouped together with the other gate outputs.
Cheers,
Scott
Edit: Schematic has been deleted. Zip file with the latest revision is downstream in this thread. Check first post of thread to find exact whereabouts. Last edited by Scott Stites on Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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vtl5c3
Joined: Sep 08, 2006 Posts: 425 Location: PDX
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:57 am Post subject:
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4 pages of schematics. ayayay!!!
I'd love it if we could get Ken Stone to drop everything he's doing and make a pcb for it. |
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Coriolis
Joined: Apr 11, 2005 Posts: 616 Location: Stilling, Denmark
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:33 am Post subject:
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Quote: | I'd love it if we could get Ken Stone to drop everything he's doing and make a pcb for it. |
Oh yeah...
C |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject:
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Quote: | 4 pages of schematics. ayayay!!! |
(Cough) Five actually (cough, cough). Actually, the fifth page is just the opamp mixing of the signal output of the decoder. I couldn't fit it on the page with the decoder.
It's a bit worse looking than it actually is - I've just got each page doing a particular function, and I'm trying not to bunch too much up on one page.
The truly daunting part of it (as with any sequencer) is wiring all of those pots, LEDs and switches up to a panel. The Klee doesn't have anything any other sequencer with a gate bus doesn't have, except that extra row of pattern switches. Well, the model 2 doesn't, anyway. Model 4 may require some remodeling to one's house to accomodate it.....
Quote: | I'd love it if we could get Ken Stone to drop everything he's doing and make a pcb for it. |
That would be cool, indeed. Except, I'd then wonder what it was he dropped to do this.
Cheerio,
Scott |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject:
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Here's a draft of the reduced part count Gate Bus - I'm pretty sure it'll do fine withoutthe inverters I've removed. The quad LM324 VS the Dual LM358s are the big unknown - I just want to be sure triggers and gates don't bleed through to adjacent sections.
3 less IC's and 3 less caps.
Cheers,
Scott
Edit: Deleted Schematic - this revision (1.20) had a missing inverter in the Master Trigger section. Corrected and tested revision (1.30) appears downstream in this thread. Last edited by Scott Stites on Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject:
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Quote: | Hopefully I can handle building this when all is said and done. |
Well, Uncle K is talking about doing a stripboard layout for it - he usually gels thing together with those, and that helps a lot towards getting it built. BTW, Uncle K, the schematics don't necessarily designate individual boards and which part should go on which boards. They're separated into chunks to help deal with the different sections.
Could be there is an easier way to breadboard certain sections together. For example, the encoder and decoder sections would probably work pretty well close to each other. Also, ICs that are subdivided into sections (like the CD40106s and CD4093s, etc.) don't necessarily have to use the same order of sections - IE, if section B of a CD40106 is indicated on the schematic, but it's easier to wire to section C, go for it - it won't make any difference. If you do make changes like that, let me know and I'll mark up the schematic.
Clock and Load is set up so that it breadboards quite easily, so that might translate into an easy stripboard.
The Model 2 has been amazingly trouble-free to design. The thing I really, really have a problem with is feature creep. Towards the end, where the voltage is produced, there are so many things that could be added.
For example, as I mentioned before, there are two shift registers, and it's a simple matter to add a switch so that you can have 16X1 operation or 8X2 operation, like on the ARP1601. That's very easy to implement. Then that leaves you with two extra voltage outputs - Section A and Section B, which would put out voltages in parallel. The normal Klee output would put out the sum of the two voltages while in that mode. This would enable two unique 8 step sequences to be generated rather than a single 16 step sequence. But then, do you want to add lag circuits to them as well, would one want to be able to modulate them, offset them, etc. etc. etc.?
I'll just keep my eye on the brass ring for Model 2, then go nuts with model 3, which will be an enhanced version of Model 2.
Model 4 will be the original concept, which was covered in the first post of this thread. For the very dangerous, sick and adventurous only. It'll have a Klee row and a normal, up/down sequencer row, and two rows of pots. Each row of pots will be selectable between Klee pattern, enhanced single bit sequencer or both. That gate bus would also be selectable between either or both - cool thing about that is that the sequencer row can also be used as the control row. That all will come out in the Return of the Klee Prequel.
Cheers,
Scott |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:38 am Post subject:
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The ARP 1601 Sequencer is a 16 step sequencer that can be switched between a single 16 step sequence or two unique 8 step parallel sequences.
By placing a switch on the encoder board, and designing the voltage mixing accordingly on the as yet unseen voltage mixer circuit (the mysterious page 5), the Klee can perform the same function as the 1601.
On the attached schematic fragment from the Encoder, SW2A is a DPDT On-On switch that will select between a 16 step sequence (16X1) or two parallel 8 step sequences (8X2).
If the switch is set to 16X1, everything described up to this point applies. If the switch is set to 8X2, the following changes occur in the sequence:
1. If the random/pattern switch is set to "pattern", steps 1 through 8 will loop around and generate a pattern programmed by pattern switches 1 through 8. Steps 9 through 16 will loop around and produce a separate pattern programmed by pattern switches 9 through 16.
2. If the random/pattern switch is set to "random", steps 1 through 8 will generate a random pattern, and steps 9 through 16 will still loop and generate the pattern programmed on pattern switches 9 through 16.
If pattern switch 1 is set to 'on', with switches 2 through 8 set to 'off', and pattern switch 9 is set to 'on', with pattern switches 10 through 16 set to 'off', the Klee will emulate the ARP1601's 8X2 function.
The Gate Bus operation will not change - it will still assign gates and triggers as before. In the case of the Bus 1 reload function, it will reload both patterns when gate bus 1 goes high.
This will require two additional voltage outputs - output A, which will put out any pattern generated on the first 8 steps, and output B, which will put out any pattern generated on the second 8 steps. The normal 'Klee' output will still put out a 'mix' of these two voltages - it will be a different pattern yet as compared to what will be generated in the 16X1 mode with the same pattern switch configuration - it will be yet another unique 8 step pattern.
This brings us to an interesting, Klee-unique twist:
With a 'Normal' sequencer generating a 16 step sequence, one bit only passes from stage to stage. This means that for the first 8 steps, output A is generating a voltage pattern, while output B is static at 0V. For steps 9 through 16, output A drops to 0V and output B generates a voltage pattern.
The Klee is not a 'Normal' sequencer. It can have several bits active at any given time. This means, even though one is generating a 16 step sequence, output A and Output B will still be generating patterns derived from the first eight steps and second eight steps respectively! As long as at least one bit from the first 8 pattern switches is 'on' and at least one bit from the second 8 pattern switches is on, this will be the case. So, now, not only can we switch between 16X1 and 8X2 sequences, even in 16X1, the Klee will still be generating three unique 16 step voltage patterns from one sequence.
This functionality adds yet a new dimension to the Klee function, but I'm at odds with putting it in Model 2 and designing the output stage accordingly, or waiting to put it into model 3. So - does anyone have an opinion - is the Model 2 overwhelming enough as it is, or can it tolerate this one bit of feature creepage?
Lemme know!
Scott
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8X2/16X1 Switch on Klee Encoder |
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Coriolis
Joined: Apr 11, 2005 Posts: 616 Location: Stilling, Denmark
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject:
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Hmm, tough call.
On one hand, I'm looking for as much fun and bang for my buck in whatever sequencer I'm going to end up building (just starting up with this modular synth thing), and since I don't have the chops to breadboard this one, I would be depending on either a pcb or stripboard layout being made by someone else. I definitely wan't a lot of bells and whistles on this one!
On the other hand, if the degree of modularity is great enough, if some of those bells and whistles were relatively easy to add later (provided the panel space is there), then yeah, let's have several models, getting progressively hairier!
Well, being able to chose between 1x16 and 2x8 is certainly something I'd like.
C |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:04 pm Post subject:
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An extra switch won't make much difference to the stripboard, and it will be a while before I get the chance to actually make one, so, it's all good to me. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:15 am Post subject:
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Cool! I tried running 8X2 last night, and it definitely adds a *lot* of coolness to the functionality. What I'll probably do is scale down what I wanted to do with the voltage mixer section. Originally I wanted to provide offset and modulation input controls, but that can all be done externally if need be.
Uncle K - I probably will change the encoder slightly - you'll notice the three switches on there could be handled by a single 4053. It would only slightly add to the circuitry, but at the same time would make the switching cleaner and easier to wire up panel-wise - just ground the control inputs to make each function happen as opposed to sending the signal to the switches, then back down to the board.
Cheers,
Scott |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 6:42 am Post subject:
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Clock and load is happening tonight. You're lucky that the Sorcerer is at a loud sawing/drilling/filing stage, and I'm not allowed to do those things when the little ones are asleep! _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:02 am Post subject:
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I figured, being your offspring, the sawing, drilling, and filing would lull the wee ones to sleep
I'm sure you're aware, but thought I'd mention it because I have yet to put such notes on the schematic - the switches are all panel mount and off-board (unless you're making a panel mount board, of course).
Cheerios,
Scott |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:26 am Post subject:
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Oh, I have no doubt that it might lull the little ones to sleep. The problem is the effect it would have on the Mumasaurus!
I just finished the Clock & Load. Yeah, all the switches are off board. It fits into less than half of a standard 160*100mm stripboard. Not double checked yet. I'll wait till I've put something (which?) on the other half before I post a copy of it. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:45 am Post subject:
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Quote: | The problem is the effect it would have on the Mumasaurus! |
Yes, the Mumasaurus gene pool generally contains the hormone triggered "not around *my* kids you don't" trait.
Quote: | I just finished the Clock & Load. Yeah, all the switches are off board. It fits into less than half of a standard 160*100mm stripboard. Not double checked yet. I'll wait till I've put something (which?) on the other half before I post a copy of it. |
That was quick! I use Express PCB schematic maker, which always makes things look sterner and more complicated than the jolly results of Ray's software, but I can get things done much more quickly with it.
The next logical step, I think, would be to include part of the encoder - depending on if there is room to include two of those cockroach sized CD4034s, a CD4053 and an LM358. Everything to the right of those is sort of a fan-out anyway, and probably the interconnections would be easier if they shared a board or boards. The schematics are laid out the way they are just to make the whole thing more grok...er...understandable.
I've uploaded revision 2 of the encoder with this message - it complicates things a bit with the 4053 (though Express PCB's depiction of the CD4053 makes it look more complicated than it is). Cleaner switching, easier for panel wiring, more difficult for the stripboard designer....
Cheers,
Scott
Description: |
Klee Encoder Revision 2 - Added CD4053 switching of random and 8X2/16X1 modes. |
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221.46 KB |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject:
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Confirmed the 4053 operation tonight - works as drawn.
In fact, testing it revealed a factor I hadn't anticipated with the whole 8X2/16X1 Klee thing - it provides a way to vary the programmed Klee pattern. It can play sort of a shell game with the bits.
It's another one of those easy to grasp when you do it, but hard to explain things. Lets say you have the first four bits of the first 8 stages high, and nothing programmed in the last 8 bits. If you are in 8X2 mode, these four bits constantly circulate through the first 8 stages (bank A) and nothing circulates in the last 8 stages (bank B), because nothing was programmed there to begin with.
Now, lets say you switch to 16X1 mode. Those four bits are now allowed to circulate through all 16 stages. Lets say they advance far enough so that the first two bits of our four bits occupy steps 7 and 8 and the second two bits occupy steps 9 and 10. Before they can advance any further, you flip back into 8X2 mode. Now, two bits are circulating in the first 8 steps (bank A) and two bits are circulating in the second 8 steps (bank B) - you've just changed the pattern without touching a pattern switch! It's pretty cool for 'on the fly' random changes.
I won't 'go there' with Model 2, just to save Uncle K the agony, but that unused comparator on the encoder....it could be used to remotely switch from 8X2 to 16X1 with an external input. Or it could be used to remotely switch between random and pattern mode. Either of these functions would have the ability to 'mix up' the pattern, and thus the Klee sequence itself, on the fly.
Cheerio,
Scott |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:36 am Post subject:
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Hey Scott,
I've never actually spotted one of these 4034 critters in it's natural habitat, and I was wondering how fat they are. I've just made an image of one to insert in the Lochmaster library, and from the info I could find it's supposed to be about 15.5mm across the legs, (spans 6 spaces on a bread/stripboard) but it looks a bit on the chubby side to me. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject:
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Yep, they take 7 holes (span 6 spaces) that's the one I did.
I consolidated the C&L and started the encoder on the other half of the board last night. With a bit of luck those two schems will fit. (Including your pesky little battalion of buffers!) _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24085 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject:
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I thought I had seen the 4034 in a slim package as well, but now that I try to google for evidence all I get is "celine dyon cd 4034 sunglasses"
But a slim one would fit just as well of course _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
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Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:06 pm Post subject:
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Seems to me that there is (was) a slim version - IIRC, the datasheet might make mention of it(?) - I'll have to check.
Worked out the 4051/attenuator tonight - works splendidly. The abbreviated KrukuVolt scheme works very well.
Going is slow, because the damn thing always spits out some weird little tune that catches my ear like a shiny bauble catches a crows eye, and I have to stop and play with it awhile. This is one hell of a fun device!
Here's a sample that contains three different parts - I recorded them this morning when I was breadboarding the A, B, and A+B CV outputs. Just an example of the weird things the Klee will burp out at you. All three elements of the sample were recorded with the same patch, a rather mosquitoey sounding patch at times. First part is A and B outputs in 8X2 mode, second part is A and B outputs in 16X1 mode (same pot settings, different pattern) and the third part is A+B controlling one VCO, A controlling another VCO, and B chipping in to control the filter the A+B signal is passing through. Each sample is a single take - on the first two, I start with one voice then fade in the other voice. All three had patterns that were 'found' through random input and flipping between 8X2 and 16X1 to mix them up a bit more before recording.
Picture our three eyed stripper dancing in a cloud of exuberant, blood sucking insects.....
http://mypeoplepc.com/members/scottnoanh/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/three_faces_of_klee.mp3
Cheers,
Scott Last edited by Scott Stites on Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:23 am Post subject:
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Absolutely beautiful!
I listen to those sequences and I think "The world needs more Klee sequencers!" This is going to make the world a better place! I'm honoured to be involved in such a project! _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:57 am Post subject:
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Man,
I gotta have a break!
This is the first time I've had to steal real estate from under ICs!
There was so much shady space under those 4034s I just couldn't say no. It does make sense though, there is always at least two verticals under a chip, and there's no reason not to run the power in on them, just have to remember to put those links in before your IC sockets.
I'm trying to work out now how to consolidate some space so I can fit that last 4050 hex buffer on. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18198 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:36 am Post subject:
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Nice samples, Scott. This thing makes interesting music. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:51 am Post subject:
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We canny feet noo maw onth boord Cap'em!
Cockroach coonts inth reid zoon proximiteee! _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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