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mosc
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play
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 Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject:
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looks like a clear case of specialization. Composition is an incredibly broad term and can be used in reference to poetry, painting and even film. If someone writes pop songs then technically they are both a composer and a pop-musician. If someone simply plays pop-music but doesn't write it then they are a performer not a composer.
That's my uber-dry explanation. In reality I think we have certain preconceptions about what is a composer and these are cultural as well as personal. In my own warped view of reality, there can be both people that write pop music and are composers and people that write pop music and are not composers (such as people that write only extremely derivative works). |
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject:
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Oh me and my big mouth  
| play wrote: | | Composition is an incredibly broad term |
'Composition', Yes but it is entirely different to 'Composer' isn't it?
Also 'pop music' tends to be referred to a 'track' (presumably from a 'record') whereas composition....well I'm not too sure.
Composer, on the other hand, the picture of an orchestra springs up in my mind- or more to the point, a score. |
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seraph
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject:
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George Gershwin was a great pop composer (if pop stands for popular), he wrote a long list of beautiful pop songs but also wrote "serious" stuff. I dare to say Mozart too was pop (for his time, of course). Now beat me...
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject:
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| seraph wrote: | | George Gershwin was a great pop composer (if pop stands for popular) |
Yes, but that's still a 'popular composer'. Gershwin is most definitely a composer- but a pop musician he is not. Gershwin took pop elements and used them in his compositions- which incidentally, puts him right up at the top of the league. |
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elektro80
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject:
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Is this pop?
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Wout Blommers
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | | Composer, on the other hand, the picture of an orchestra springs up in my mind- or more to the point, a score. |
Well, an arranger (rewriting a piece of music towards other instruments or writing a score for a melody - George Martin's arrangements to The Beatles 'Yesterday'), isn't a composer. To be honest, the term is rather vague, specially when looking at the results.
In music, everybody who has the mental capability to find a form in which the musical piece can be created is called 'composer'. If it's been done by writing it down in some way or by aural communication - like singing - is just the a way to realize the composition. Aural communication in pop music is very important. In my view there is no difference between a composer and a pop musician, although with the remark not every composer is a pop musician and not every pop musician is a composer...
Wout
Last edited by Wout Blommers on Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject:
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| elektro80 wrote: | Is this pop?
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I dunno- but it sure makes a funny image |
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject:
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| Wout Blommers wrote: | | In my view there is no difference between a composer and a pop musician, although with the remark not every composer is a pop musician and not every pop musician is a composer... |
I disagree. I think the difference is very big, but I thing it is quite feasible for a pop musician to become a composer. Take Jonny Greenwood from Radiohead;
| Quote: | | Jonny Greenwood was hired by the BBC as its composer in residence in May 2004, a job which gave him the opportunity to compose several pieces for classical orchestra, piano and/or Ondes Martenot: Smear, Piano for Children and Popcorn Superhet Receiver. Smear premiered in 2004, and on 23 April 2005 Greenwood premiered his new work commissioned by BBC Radio 3, with music performed live by the BBC Concert Orchestra in London[2] |
(ref; http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/collective/A3955223) |
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Wout Blommers
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: |
I disagree. I think the difference is very big, but I thing it is quite feasible for a pop musician to become a composer. Take Jonny Greenwood from Radiohead... |
So you want to say Mr Greenwood just played songs written by others, while playing in Radiohead?
Tell me, who composed 'Yesterday'? I always thought it was Paul McGartney, wasn't he? Believe me, although his name is not known, there was somebody who composed the tune 'Three Blind Mice'!
Even traditional music is composed by somebody, but due to the aural communication it changed a lot, so no names were known to the musicians.
Wout |
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject:
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| Wout Blommers wrote: | | somebody who composed the tune 'Three Blind Mice' |
I think you are confusing yourself between 'composed' and 'wrote'. Three Blind Mice was written, not composed.
edit- composed should be between quotation marks. "composed". |
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v-un-v
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject:
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| Wout Blommers wrote: | So you want to say Mr Greenwood just played songs written by others, while playing in Radiohead?
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I don't really understand what you are saying here Wout.  Greenwood is just an example I picked out, because I don't have a TV but I listen to the radio most of the time. Greenwood's name pops up from time to time on Radio 3. |
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elektro80
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| Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:21 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Is there a difference between a Composer and a pop musician? |
Is there a difference between a composer and a composer?
Make a note of capital C having been switched to lowercase.
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Wout Blommers
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:01 am Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | | Wout Blommers wrote: | | somebody who composed the tune 'Three Blind Mice' |
I think you are confusing yourself between 'composed' and 'wrote'. Three Blind Mice was written, not composed.
edit- composed should be between quotation marks. "composed". |
I would say... please explain your definition of composing music...
What will be the difference with writing music?
Wout |
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FLechdrop
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:24 am Post subject:
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| Wout Blommers wrote: | In my view there is no difference between a composer and a pop musician, although with the remark not every composer is a pop musician and not every pop musician is a composer...
Wout |
That really does look very much like a contradiction, don't you think? |
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modulator_esp
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:58 am Post subject:
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I think a composer is someone who writes music and that nowadays writing music includes creating it and that a pop musician who writes/creates music is therefore a composer.
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bachus
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:12 am Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | | Composer, on the other hand, the picture of an orchestra springs up in my mind- or more to the point, a score. |
Score is what pops into my mind.
But if you mean there is a difference between someone who writes score and someone who creates music by other means then, f**k no.
Edit:
Oops forgot where I was
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David Westling
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| Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:52 pm Post subject:
well-known composers |
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| Quote: |
Tell me, who composed 'Yesterday'? I always thought it was Paul McGartney, wasn't he? Believe me, although his name is not known, there was somebody who composed the tune 'Three Blind Mice'!
Even traditional music is composed by somebody, but due to the aural communication it changed a lot, so no names were known to the musicians.
Wout |
As to the question of who composed "Yesterday", I believe you are referring to Paul Black Garter, the composer for various pornographic films such as those produced by the notorious Jesus Franco.
"Yesterday...all my ED's were so far away...now it looks as though they're here to stay, Oh I believe in Yesterday."
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Wout Blommers
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:33 am Post subject:
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| FLechdrop wrote: | | That really does look very much like a contradiction, don't you think? |
No, I don't think so 
Wout |
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Wout Blommers
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:43 am Post subject:
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| v-un-v wrote: | | I think you are confusing yourself between 'composed' and 'wrote'. Three Blind Mice was written, not composed. |
Three blind mice is a wonderful composition, almost the ultimate composition, 'if' it was written by just one person, which I believe it is, although the libretto could be by somebody else... I have to google for this one.
Imagine three little animals with no ability to see at all. To illustrate this unhappy thought, the melody, consisting of only three notes, is composed descending. Then the theme is repeated, which can be interpreted as a reprise. After the thesis a wonderful anti thesis follows, different melody, different rhythm and a very joyful mood, because the three little fellows want to make fun, which could mean a bad ending, which follows close on the anti thesis, the third repetition of the thesis...
It is a COMPOSITION pur sang...
Wout |
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Wout Blommers
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| Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:55 am Post subject:
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| Me wrote: | | I have to google for this one. |
click here
the valse caprice Three Blind Mice, that name already indicates a composition 
Wout |
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Stanley Pain
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject:
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Is there a difference between a Composer and a pop musician?
Yes, otherwise we wouldn't use different words for them.
I'm going to assume that pop is short for "popular".
A musician can be a composer, but could also be a performer or an audience (capable of criticism).
Therefore a "composer" can be a "musician" because "musician" is a broader term that encompasses "composer".
However, a composer is not automatically "popular".
Whereas there is a difference in the precise definition of the words, many qualities are shared by both "composer" and "pop musician".
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bachus
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:40 pm Post subject:
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| Stanley Pain wrote: | Is there a difference between a Composer and a pop musician?
Yes, otherwise we wouldn't use different words for them.
... |
As a thoughtful analysis based on the general usage and meanings of the words I like yours better than mine.
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Kassen
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| Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject:
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| Stanley Pain wrote: |
Yes, otherwise we wouldn't use different words for them.
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So, you also hold the Morningstar and Venus to be different things?
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Stanley Pain
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| Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:59 am Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | | Stanley Pain wrote: |
Yes, otherwise we wouldn't use different words for them.
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So, you also hold the Morningstar and Venus to be different things? |
that's a semiotic question.
the etymology of both those words imply different cultural heritages. although both words refer to the same signified physical entity, the signs (or words) have different meanings.
The etymology of the morning star is quite interesting. Morning star is, of course, not a star but the planet Venus that can appear just before dawn. Sometimes it is known as the evening star when it appears just before sunset.
To the greeks it was known as Aphrodite* when it appeared in the morning. As far as the greeks were concerned, when it appeared in the evening it was a different physical entity, and they called it Hesperos (son of Eos).
to the Romans it was Venus. to pragmatists such as sailors or christians (depending on which etymologist you believe) it was simply the morning star.
therefore the reason that planet has more than one signifier is because historically, humans have believed it to be more than one different thing.
this is also why an Orchids is also known as an Orchidaceae and a dog can be called a chien.
*although during another period of Greek history/culture it was known as Phosphorus, or "bearer of life".
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Is there a difference between a Composer and a pop musician?
