triggering help

golden gang · Joined: Mar 22, 2005 Posts: 9 Location: montreal

hi i have an alesis micron synth and i was wondering if it's possible to have triggered drum pads hooked up to my keyboard via MIDI to control a setup of percussive programs that i made. I was thinking of buying a drum module unless this can be done. the alesis micron has midi, in, out and through. i'm really a beginer when it comes to MIDI so i'm not even sure how to use what. any help would be much appreciated.

thanks

ps, i know i would need some sort of module to convert the trigger inputs (1/4 inch) to MIDI.

golden gang · Joined: Mar 22, 2005 Posts: 9 Location: montreal

ok so i found the Roland TMC6 which does the job....does anyone know if the roland tmc6 is cabable of triggering any MIDI device?

seraph · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:16 am Post subject: Re: triggering help

golden gang · Joined: Mar 22, 2005 Posts: 9 Location: montreal

seraph · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:01 am Post subject: Re: triggering help

golden gang · Joined: Mar 22, 2005 Posts: 9 Location: montreal

i don't quite understand. lets say i wanted to play the "C" "D" "E" notes on 3 seperate triggers from my keyboard. how would i know what C, D, and E's MIDI number are?

seraph · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:05 am Post subject: Re: triggering help

jksuperstar · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:27 am Post subject:

I have a roland td-7 that acts as a trigger->midi (and as sound module). The Roland gear usually has 2 modes for assigning note numbers to triggers: 1 is using midi note #'s (0-128, or typically 33-96 for drum gear), the other is assigning midi notes according to alpha-numeric system (A2, B#4, C6, etc). You do have to be careful using this method, though, because some manufacturers have different definitions for what "Middle C" is, so roland and korg wouldn't be exactly the same for example (they are off by 1 octave).

However, it's usually much easier than this discussion is making it seem Smile

Just try it, and you'll see it's easy. You should check out the new M-audio drum pad also, or the Korg Kontrol, if you don't want a drum kit, but a more MPC (finger pads) type interface.

jksuperstar · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 11:30 am Post subject:

Oh, also do a search for "General MIDI Drum". There are standard assignments for MIDI drums (bass drum = Note# 33, closed hi-hat = 92, etc). If you follow a standard trap-set up, or orchestral drums, this system makes it easy to import/export MIDI drum sequences, or mix & match triggers to various sound modules, since the bass-drum will always be mapped to a bass-drum.

golden gang · Joined: Mar 22, 2005 Posts: 9 Location: montreal

thanks to everyone that has responded. your comments and advice helped me a lot. here's another question i have. Can an Alesis DM5 MIDI out to any keyboard and play notes via triggers? ( just like how the Roland TMC-6 can). cause if this is the case, with the DM5, there are 12 trigger inputs and onboard sounds as well. But the TMC6 only has 6 triggers and no sounds....

would the Alesis be better? or better yet i just came across the D4 which isn't produced anymore and selling for cheap.

jksuperstar · Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:50 pm Post subject:

I think you can get a DM5 with a full set of triggers (for an acoustic drumset...could be used on nearly anything though!) for $350US new. That's a steal. If you need really good drum sounds, the DMPro is the bomb.

But, the DM5 will definitely do this for you! It plays & sounds good.

golden gang · Joined: Mar 22, 2005 Posts: 9 Location: montreal

ok everyone, i started building my own drum triggers...essentially it's a contact mic underneth a playable surface. However, i came across a slight potential problem. FOr those who are familiar with building drum triggers, your help would do me a blessing. My problem is :

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

would this lead to false triggering? I was wondering if someone has a solution for me, asides from buying an actual drum trigger Laughing

how would i insulate the wire? any help would be grand!

thanks

jksuperstar · Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:51 pm Post subject:

How is your contact mic (piezo element) mounted? Can you just mount the cable somewhere also? If that's limiting, try building a short cable, that has a piezo at one end, and 1/4" female connector at the other. The mount the connector. This allows you to unplug a cable, just like any other drum trigger would allow, and if the 1/4" conn is "mounted" well, any movement of the cable won't be transferred to the piezo... You have to deal with the cable no matter what, since the piezo is designed to detect vibrations...whether they come from your drum surface, or the cable, it doesn't descriminate.

golden gang · Joined: Mar 22, 2005 Posts: 9 Location: montreal

well said jksuperstar. well nothing is really assembled yet...except for what you see in my diagram. i have yet to make pads and cut out a circular metal sheet and piece them all together. I've noticed everyone that builds pads usually use 1/4 inch female connectors...i was just trying to save more money by directly reducing 2 parts. (female and male) cause i'm also making my own cables. but it seems i will go the extra mile and get a few more...its not that expensive anyway. i was also wondering, do professionaly made triggers react the same way, as mine? like instead of the wire being mounted or hidden inside the cage, if it were to dangle off the pad, would the movements of the cable be detected?

i also came across some technical terms that the alesis dm5 or d4 use...terms such as crosstalk. some people say they put triggers on the cage as well to deal with this problem.... i dont quite understand how this works.

zynthetix · Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 1:50 pm Post subject:

tips for making drum pads:

try to find practice pads that are hollow and the right size for your circuitry. they can be pretty cheap and comftorable to play on.

as for the cross talk thing, you want to mount your piezo trigger and wires well. I actually recommend attatching the piezo trigger to the flat side of a plastic coffee can lid. then attatch the edge/perimeter of the lid to the underside of the pad. this makes it more sensitive in a good way: hitting in the center of the pad makes a "louder" trigger than other places. you can adjust extra cross-talk sensitivity with a drum module's settings.

i don't really understand what a cage is. A good rack to mount your pads on will prevent crosstalk, otherwise seperate stands. No wires should be dangling or outside of you pad unless they are the 1/4" cable connected to the jack and drum module.

mosc · Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:02 pm Post subject:

The wires that go to the outside world - drum module - should not be directly attached to the pickup. Separate wires in a sort of strain relief system to accoustically decouple the cables. For example. Have the main connection cables attache to a heavy immobile part of the insturment that is near where the pickup is. Attach it firmly and bring the connection wires to a pair of terminal posts. The connect some very small wires that are perhaps coiled to the pickups. The coils of wire will hopefully dampen any vibations coming to it from the heavy frame. Look at the way voice coils on loudspeakers are connected to binding posts and then to the outside wiring. That's a good model.