Pitch stick/wheel MIDI send module ...

Robby · Last edited by Robby on Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

As far as I can see, there is no way to route pitch stick/wheel
data using the MIDI send modules.

Either a new module should be added or an existing module should be
extended to allow routing of pitch-wheel type controllers.

As it stands, the MIDI send implementation is incomplete.

jksuperstar · Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:57 pm Post subject:

As far as MIDI implementation of these send modules is concerned, RPNs and NRPNs, and MIDI Start/Stop would all aslo be very very helpful.

[edit- Somthing more than 7bit control is needed for this synth! If it will be a while before OSC is adapted Rolling Eyes

Then 14bit NRPNs are the *next* best thing]

blue hell · Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:17 pm Post subject:

When you'd add a poll to this I'd vote "very yes please" or whatever you choose to be the most yes-must-have like option.

The MIDI interface should be complete (not only for outputs, inputs as well), the G2 could easily be a swiss army knife for MIDI.

Jan.

haxern · Joined: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Vienna

Blue Hell,

I couldn't agree more. The MIDI things are really a high priority thing.

And, it's not just the pitch stick: also channel pressure is not implemented. Sad

There's no Prg Change Receive implementation either (which would be nice even if the global Prg Change receive is disabled).

I encountered some problems with the Note Zone module when I use it to receive MIDI from an external keyboard and route it to a slot. If I place it in the FX Area, it does not work. If I put it in the voice area, the routing is done for every voice!

Cheers ... david

gravehill · Joined: Apr 12, 2005 Posts: 49 Location: Berlin, Germany

I'm not even using G2 but if I had some extra money I would be tempted to consider buying one. But definitely not without a proper MIDI implementation!

Axiom · Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:02 pm Post subject:

mmm can you explain this issue better? i'm just doing some tests and I can see pitch stick sending "pitch bend" messages as long assignments to other CC# via CtrlSend module.

edit: also patch and bank changes works fine.

blue hell · Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:35 pm Post subject:

jamos · Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:35 pm Post subject:

This is a ridiculously loaded question.

Of course the G2 should have a "complete" MIDI implentation. But what does that mean?

NRPN's for each parameter?

Full sysex?

MIDI machine control allowing complete automation of all parameters?

If you'd asked about pitch bend, the question would make sense; even then, I'd probably answer no, since I have no particular use for that.

Axiom · Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:03 pm Post subject:

Sorry but perhaps i'm stupid and too new to g2... let's say that I want to send some modulations to external gear using an LFO and a midi ctrl send module. as far as I've seen, this seems possible. Now my silly question is why use pbend info to modulate pitch instead of pitch mod destination that IMHO every synth have?

Seems that all midi cc# related communication can be done. Never tried with RPN/NRPN but I don't believe that those midi modules can let me do it.

see ya
Luca

blue hell · Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:37 pm Post subject:

Just some remarks, no fuel, innocent thoughts really.

Also see [edit ...] section in 2nd post in this thread.

Having more than 7 bits of resolution is a bit of a hassle now, but yes it can be done.

Also the swiss army knife reasoning, as I gave in the 3rd post in this thread, appeals to me.

I think being a complete MIDI processing capable device would be a unique selling point for the G2, to borrow some marketing speak.

Otoh I do have a certain built in tendency to strive for completeness in technology, a tendency that I know not everyone appreciates.

Also I can see a a point in a sort of "don't nag, just use the G2 as it is, for your good", I myself use such reasoning occasioanlly on other wishes prsented on this forum.

Don't now ... there is no real need I think for words like "perhaps i 'm stupid", in the end it all boils down to personal likings I guess & I could be be too stupid just as well.

Jan.

haxern · Joined: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Vienna

Why pitch bend is necessary? My application is not nearly as esoteric than is seems:
I use the G2 as master keyboard, the NL3 as slave. In *some* G2 performances I want to send out MIDI data to the NL3. I want to have a key range for it, and I do not want to sacrifice a separate G2 slot for that. I want the midi data to be processed (e.g. transposed) before I it's sent out. And if I play the pitch stick on the G2, I want it to be sent as pitch bend data to the NL3.

Another use case: I want to play G2 sounds from an external keyboard, in addition to the G2X keyboard. A want to assign a slot and a key range to it, but again, I want it only on certain performances. Since I can set the slot's midi channels only global (and not for each performance), I'd use a NOTE ZONE module and output it on the desired slot. Again, pitch bend and channed pressure is not received.

In the studio, I can manage all this with Cubase. On stage, I dont want to use a computer (that's one of G2's main benefits, isn't it?), so I'd like the G2 to be my midi hub. MIDI, as the G2 manual says, is more than just Notes and CC, it's
- Program change
- Aftertouch (Channel Pressure)
- Pitch Bend
- MIDI Clock etc.

So the "swiss knife" suggestions are here:
- For the NoteZone Module, solve the polyphony problem (make it work in the FX area, it's only a serial data processor, so monophonic will be fine)
- extend it by Pitch Wheel, Channel Pressure and Release Velocity on/off switches.
- give it a Velocity Window
- make "This" work for the output channel.
- make send and receive modules for Pitch Bend and Channel Pressure data.
- Make a Program Change Receive module which is also enable if the global Prg Change Receive setting is "off".
- Add a RelVel input to the NoteSend module.
- Let the NoteZone module be switched on and off (make an input?)
- Make sure all the MIDI modules work in the FX area.
- Allow inoming (external) MIDI Clock to be routed to a midi out (CLK receive, CLK send?). Why not control and external NL3's LFO by a master clock "routed" through the G2?

Compared to the audio section where we have the Keyboard and Device modules, the G2 just lacks some basic MIDI in/out interface modules.

Clavia said at the Musikmesse Frankfurt that we should not expect a major software release this year Sad

but IMHO it should not be such a big deal to implement (who knows?).

What do you guys think? Let's set up a spec. Wink

cheers ... david

mosc · Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:37 pm Post subject:

The MIDI implementation does have some shortcomings. This is a good list.

I would like to see some MIDI receiver for high resolution controls, maybe by NRPNs.

revelingjohn · Joined: Jun 25, 2007 Posts: 4 Location: LA

I'm running an Axon Ax50 hex-to-midi converter into my G2. because each string of my guitar is read on it's own channel, I have to use either NoteZone or Note Send/Receive mods to route the midi info coming from each string to a specific Slot. The coolest thing about a guitar controller is the way pitch bend works, since it is linked directly to the physical bending of the strings. Unfortunately, without a pitch bend send/receive module, I can't operate my controller on multiple channels, because there's no way to route the pitch bend to specific slots. I have to go into a single channel mode, witch is really lame because that completely negates the fact that each string on my guitar has it's own pickup.
I'd really like to see a complete midi implementation that allows for the pitch state to be manipulated as thoroughly as everything else going through the G2.

mosc · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:47 pm Post subject:

revelingjohn

Good post. I've recently run into this same situation, not with a midi guitar, but controling a simple Kurzweil Micro Ensemble module. I feel your pain... Crying or Very sad

jksuperstar · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject:

One very good side benefit of a Pitch Bend module would be that it would allow a healthy chunk of the Mackie Control Protocol to be implemented in the G2. Which would make the G2 an even better software controller.

revelingjohn · Joined: Jun 25, 2007 Posts: 4 Location: LA

Sorry to compromise this thread, but I noticed that jksuperstar is using a linux icon as his avatar. Has any one tried operating the G2 in the linux environment? Is is possible to run the editor through wine? Maybe this should become a new thread...sorry

mosc · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:06 am Post subject:

The search feature on the forum is pretty good. If you search "g2 and linux and wine" you'll find a bunch of topics. These are probably the best places to start:

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-7985.html
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-7770.html

gomidas · Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:58 am Post subject:

Hi everybody, that is my lazy question... : do you think that with a good midi implementation we (NM & G2 users) can start to use this kind of tools ?

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

http://www.rekonaudio.com/VES_Lead2.php Wink