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diskonext
Joined: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 306 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:31 am Post subject:
Feigenbaum's Chaotic Ecosystem - Macro |
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This is a simple implementation of Mitchell Feigenbaum's classic chaotic formula:
X(t+1) = G * X(t) - (1 - X(t))
When 3.53 < G < 4 chaotic behaviour ensues.
Any event in the E-input outputs the next number. All output should be 0 < x < 1 for your scaling pleasure.
TODO:
a reset button for deterministic results. _________________ :wq Last edited by diskonext on Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:16 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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diskonext
Joined: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 306 Location: London, UK
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diskonext
Joined: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 306 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:43 am Post subject:
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hmmm,
I seem to be having some problems postng attachments.
When I view that picture locally in IE I have no problems. I'll post the macro as well
--- pause ---
I can't post .mdl files...
Description: |
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Download |
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Feigenbaum.zip |
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1.1 KB |
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744 Time(s) |
_________________ :wq |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:38 am Post subject:
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Sorry for the problem posting attachements. That is fixed now.
I just added mdl files to the list of extensions to accept. If you have any other extensions you need for Reaktor, just let me know via PM. |
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diskonext
Joined: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 306 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:11 am Post subject:
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Cool,
thanks for that.
Updated the .jpg.
-diskonext _________________ :wq |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:34 am Post subject:
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Before I start trying to build this for the NM G2, let me ask,
shouldn't it be X(t+1) = G * X(t) - (1 - X(t)) ?
do you do this for control type signals or audio rate?
is this noticibly different than a random signal?
is,
X(t+1) = G * X(t) - (1 - X(t)) the same as
X(t) = G * X(t -1) - (1 - X(t-1)) ? |
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diskonext
Joined: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 306 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:50 pm Post subject:
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Yes,
you're right, I made a typo in the original post, I'll correct it.
The two equations you wrote in your post are identical.
Before you start working on the G2 patch check out http://www.cim.mcgill.ca/~clark/nordmodularbook/nm_book_toc.html under the section Chaos (or something), I took it from there.
There it is argued that the progressions found in chaotic systems are 'pseudo-periodic' and have potential to be ear-pleasing. This depends on your view on ear-pleasingness of course
I never tried this at audio-rates, it would produce... interesting waveforms I guess... Let me know how that sounded if you try.
-diskonext
[editor's note: took the comma of the end of the modularbook link -- mosc] _________________ :wq |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:54 pm Post subject:
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Thanks for the reference. I know Jim's book. I'm not surprised the Rob Hordijk has already done this...
I assume you know Rob... |
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diskonext
Joined: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 306 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:32 am Post subject:
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I don't know Rob, actually. Is he a fellow The Hagueian?
I saw that one of the dutchies writing about the NM is associated with Koorenhuis (a fine arts/music centre here in The Hague), is that Rob?
A plus for chaotic systems would be that even if they were 'true' random (not from the cryptographers standpoint, but anyway...) they offer an easy way to reset them, and play the same random sequence over and over.
-diskonext _________________ :wq |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:04 am Post subject:
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diskonext wrote: | I don't know Rob, actually. Is he a fellow The Hagueian?
I saw that one of the dutchies writing about the NM is associated with Koorenhuis (a fine arts/music centre here in The Hague), is that Rob? |
Yes he is but the one you pointed out is Roland Kuit. And there is one more, at least, Wout Blommers also lives in the Hague, a very electronic city it seems.
In the past we've been having NM events in 'het Koorenhuis'. Here are some very old pictures :
http://www.ibisman.com.au/NordModDay.htm
Jan. |
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diskonext
Joined: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 306 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:13 pm Post subject:
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Yes,
The Hague is sooo boring everyone is sitting inside twidlling their knobs, I guess.
-diskonext _________________ :wq |
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play
Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 489 Location: behind the mustard
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2004 2:06 pm Post subject:
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I started applying this macro to audio signals and it took quite a bit of tweaking to get interesting results. I'll post the instrument tonite when I get home.
I've had much better results using radom event generators to trigger envelopes that control pitch, amplitude and freq modulation.
I tried using this macro in a sequencing context as well with much better results. There's just not quite enough randomness in it for my taste but it's interesting. |
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diskonext
Joined: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 306 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:15 am Post subject:
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Nice to see you used it,
indeed on audio-rates it does not yield all too interesting results. Perhaps if you use it as a modulation source on a sine, and use the resulting sound as part of a richer sound it might yield some (better) results.
Or use the event output to switch direction in a note-sequence (when x > .5).
I'll be trying to implement the 2-dimensional chaotic system as well, which outputs two interrelated chaotic variables. That's going to be murder, though...
-diskonext _________________ :wq |
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diskonext
Joined: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 306 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 5:20 am Post subject:
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And one other thing:
for different values of G you get either converging or oscillating systems. Especially the converging systems might be nice to implement arp's with. If a reset button is added and G is varied upon reset you can start listening to arp's/sequences until you find nice values of G.
This is true for 'chaotic' values of G as well, of course. But the converging would lead to a complex melody slowly thinning out to a stable system.
-diskonext _________________ :wq |
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Rob
Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 580 Location: The Hague/Netherlands/EC
G2 patch files: 109
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Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 6:31 am Post subject:
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Blue Hell wrote: | diskonext wrote: | I don't know Rob, actually. Is he a fellow The Hagueian?
I saw that one of the dutchies writing about the NM is associated with Koorenhuis (a fine arts/music centre here in The Hague), is that Rob? |
Yes he is but the one you pointed out is Roland Kuit. And there is one more, at least, Wout Blommers also lives in the Hague, a very electronic city it seems.
In the past we've been having NM events in 'het Koorenhuis'. Here are some very old pictures :
http://www.ibisman.com.au/NordModDay.htm
Jan. |
Here is a more recent picture, I guess you recognize this is at restaurant De Klap. From left to right: me, Wout, Lies and Howard enjoying the 'boring life' in The Hague.
And here Mosc is the honoured guest in my little private studio:
/Rob
Btw, I have nothing at all to do with the Koorenhuis, its another scene I'm not associated with. Actually, there are several scenes in The Hague doing the electronic music thang, but it seems there is little contact between these scenes. |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:46 am Post subject:
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Yikes... I have lost 30 pounds, 13.6 Kg, since that picture.
I feel like a different person. Rob, I'll have to come back to The Hague and do the visit again.
[Editor's note: Rob, I changed your URL tags to IMG tags so the pics would show in line. Click the edit button on your post and you'll see how that works. ] _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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zynthetix
Joined: Jun 12, 2003 Posts: 838 Location: nyc
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 13
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zynthetix
Joined: Jun 12, 2003 Posts: 838 Location: nyc
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 13
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play
Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 489 Location: behind the mustard
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:59 am Post subject:
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interesting. I would add a square wav and triangle and have a crossfade between them controlled by an LFO or another, similar random event data generator. This would make it even more random sounding and add a wider variety of phrases. |
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zynthetix
Joined: Jun 12, 2003 Posts: 838 Location: nyc
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 13
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play
Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 489 Location: behind the mustard
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:05 pm Post subject:
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Nifty.
Thought I might offer up this track. It's a recording of one monster self-generating instrument built in reaktor. I wish I could supply the .ins file but alas, it is gone.
http://noiseusse.org/download.php?track=47 |
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mosc
Site Admin
Joined: Jan 31, 2003 Posts: 18197 Location: Durham, NC
Audio files: 212
G2 patch files: 60
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:40 pm Post subject:
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Track47 is a good one. _________________ --Howard
my music and other stuff |
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play
Joined: Feb 08, 2004 Posts: 489 Location: behind the mustard
Audio files: 2
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zynthetix
Joined: Jun 12, 2003 Posts: 838 Location: nyc
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 13
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Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:09 pm Post subject:
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neat track. |
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diskonext
Joined: Aug 26, 2004 Posts: 306 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:19 am Post subject:
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Neat stuff guys,
makes me wanna hop on the bandwagon as well.
Play, this entire piece was generated without user-intervention? Pretty impressive
-diskonext _________________ :wq |
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