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iep
Joined: Oct 18, 2007
Posts: 6
Location: amsterdam, the netherlands
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 Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:46 pm Post subject:
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Well, first I had the the output level of the chaos circuit scaled down, and then given a DC offset, so that the outputs were in the range of 0 and +5V.
Then I used that IpSonLab device to translate the circuit's output signals into OSC (http://opensoundcontrol.org/) data, so that I can control software and MIDI synths with the chaos circuit. It is much more flexible and precise (higher resolution) than voltage-to-MIDI converters.
I have been using the output of the chaos circuit both for subtle timbre modulations, and for more structural control. But I only have the circuit running for two days and I still have lots to explore. I didn't implement the feedback-modification yet, and I don't use a stereo-pot meter (just two mono pots instead). I also really need finetuning pots!
Here's a small bit from a jam session I did earlier today, chaos circuit controlling a granulator that mangles my voice in real time. Sounds like I have some singing talent after all, eh..
http://ezrajacobs.net/ddwp2.mp3
Thanks again Ian, this is excellent stuff! |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: NM USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject:
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| iep wrote: | Well, first I had the the output level of the chaos circuit scaled down, and then given a DC offset, so that the outputs were in the range of 0 and +5V.
Then I used that IpSonLab device to translate the circuit's output signals into OSC (http://opensoundcontrol.org/) data, so that I can control software and MIDI synths with the chaos circuit. It is much more flexible and precise (higher resolution) than voltage-to-MIDI converters.
I have been using the output of the chaos circuit both for subtle timbre modulations, and for more structural control. But I only have the circuit running for two days and I still have lots to explore. I didn't implement the feedback-modification yet, and I don't use a stereo-pot meter (just two mono pots instead). I also really need finetuning pots!
Here's a small bit from a jam session I did earlier today, chaos circuit controlling a granulator that mangles my voice in real time. Sounds like I have some singing talent after all, eh..
http://ezrajacobs.net/ddwp2.mp3
Thanks again Ian, this is excellent stuff! |
Thanks for the further clarification. I also have scaling and offset for my second version of this circuit -- more with the idea of eventually doing a MIDI interface. The issue of whether fine controls are needed or not doesn't seem to be resolved. Some people seem happy without them. So your input on that is appreciated.
Please keep us up to date on further developments and applications.
Ian |
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andrewF
Joined: Dec 29, 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: australia
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: NM USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:03 am Post subject:
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| andrewF wrote: | Ever seen this one before?   |
Sure. 
Is there a board available?
IIRC there's actually a dozen or so Moog modules behind that panel, na?
Ian |
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 4127
Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:26 pm Post subject:
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That looks sorta like a Buchla style panel. What gives, Andrew?
I was planning on putting together my Fritz Chaos boards together this holiday, but a little thing (really little) foiled my plans (a virus like I've never experienced before in my life).
Did get the 5pulser put together before it hit, though - expect a thread over that monster!
But, I digress - izzit a Buchla thing I've never heard of before?
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v-un-v
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Joined: May 16, 2005
Posts: 8932
Location: Birmingham, England, UK
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject:
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| Scott Stites wrote: |
I was planning on putting together my Fritz Chaos boards together this holiday, but a little thing (really little) foiled my plans (a virus like I've never experienced before in my life).
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What another one? 
It's been a really bad year for bugs here too. 
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ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN. |
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andrewF
Joined: Dec 29, 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: australia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:55 pm Post subject:
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 it is sadly just an artist`s impression of Buchla 200 series Chaos module, never produced (check the mismatched banana jacks in the BtmRt corner)
The 5pulser was one of the first veroboard ccts i made and to this day remains a favorite. It is pretty agro...at least in my hands 
Hope your viral invaders will move on soon |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:19 am Post subject:
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What's a 5pulser?
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Pehr
Joined: Aug 14, 2005
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007
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Location: NM USA
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 4127
Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:02 am Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Hope your viral invaders will move on soon |
They're retreating quite slowly. Yes, Tom - there wasn't anything subtle about this one. I'd sure like to know what it was, because it knocked me senseless for about four days. It started Monday afternoon and I'm still getting over it. Little Igor's still not at full capacity, either, and the wife is still quite listless. Hmmm.....it hit me right around the time I was playing with this 5pulser....
Yes, indeed - the 5 Pulser is the Schnitz - it can be very aggressive or quite sublime, depending on how you apply it. I don't have anything else in the arsenal that'll do what this thing does. It can make some great instrumental tones or some pretty far out agressive tones as well. I think it would be a hell of an addition to any synth. It's one of those really cool waveforms that would sit quite well with a feedback oscillator and supersaw in those new fangled synthesizers. I imagine if those Roland engineers got an earful of one, it would probably appear pretty quick. Probably with a name like Hyperpulse or Superpulse.
Cheerios,
Scott
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andrewF
Joined: Dec 29, 2006
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| Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject:
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| frijitz wrote: |
Is there a board available?
Ian |
Thanks to you there are some boards available.
guess I should be more forthcoming - The panel is from an article by Dan Slater called `Chaotic Sound Synthesis`. Dan discusses chaos patches and circuits set up on Buchla and Moog modulars and an analogue computer.
His description of the Ueda attractor is especially interesting. The proposed module can be used as a state variable filter, a quadrature oscillator and an Ueda attractor - it could be (in theory) voltage-controlled to switch/morph between the 3 states.
It is a bit like which came first, the circuit or the panel? in this case its the panel.
I got my copy of this article off JSTOR, so am unable to post a link to it. It used to be online on Dan Slater`s homepage, but that has gone now. |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
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Location: nyc
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: NM USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:06 am Post subject:
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| loss1234 wrote: | how much is using two separate 1m pots going to ruin this circuit?
i do have a dual 500k pot but i wasnt sure if that would have enough range (i am always missing some part!) |
The dual pot isn't critical -- I used 1M because I had a bag at hand. Just use the 500k; it will work fine.
Ian |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
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Location: nyc
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject:
yeah! |
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well i think i got this working.
after a day of breadboarding and testing and soldering, i got everything done and hooked up to a vco in, and a few cv ins routed into another vco (out). i also tried messing with having one of the ez chaos outs routed BACK into the original drive vco.
some of the sounds i am getting remind me of weird FM stuff. Is this correct?
If you dont mind me asking, what is the NL output best used for?
And is it more beneficial to put the x and Y into one vco or into other sources at the same time (x to vco, y to vca,etc)
not that i cant experiment and find answers but now i am VERY EXCITED to try this in many situations and wonder what others have done.
going to perf board it up tomorrow.
good year of circuits so far!!
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-------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
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http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:28 am Post subject:
Re: yeah! |
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| loss1234 wrote: | | well i think i got this working. |
 Hey, that's great! I hope it turns out to be useful for you.
| Quote: | ... i also tried messing with having one of the ez chaos outs routed BACK into the original drive vco.
some of the sounds i am getting remind me of weird FM stuff. Is this correct? |
I never thought of trying that particluar kind of feedback, but it sounds like it could be quite interesting. And yes, if you are running the unit at audio rates and modulating a VCO then you are doing some wild FM.
| Quote: | If you dont mind me asking, what is the NL output best used for?
And is it more beneficial to put the x and Y into one vco or into other sources at the same time (x to vco, y to vca,etc) |
Think of the NL out as just another variable z. The three voltages are related by their rates of change, so they are correlated even though they are irregular.
This is an experimental circuit for experimental music so there is no body of useful applications yet. (You will help develop one!) I have mostly used the outputs as CV's, so they are useful any place you would put a modulation CV -- VCO FM, VCF FM or Q, VCA AM, etc. Some people are finding the system useful at audio frequencies. Various feedback patches are also worth looking at, as you are already starting out on.
It's also very useful to derive fixed CVs and chaotic timing events from the circuit. That's what the TGTSH was designed for. For example, you can sample one output every time another one crosses a certain threshold.
| Quote: | | good year of circuits so far!! |
You picked a good place to start.
Ian |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:09 am Post subject:
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| loss1234 wrote: | ok one more question...what should i be hearing out of the individual outputs (if i were to plug them straight into a mixer)
the reason i ask is i am wondering if the chaos comes from the way the outputs COMBINE...OR can you get results by using each (output) CV separately? when i listened to the outputs, one of them sounded quite similar to the drive input vco. |
The chaos is generated by the circuit itself, in conjunction with the driving oscillator. The outputs are ... um ... outputs. They do not affect the circuit operation unless you are feeding them back somehow. If you are running at audio frequencies, the chaos usually sounds like a periodic signal with a lot of static.
But understand that you will not get chaos at all input/control settings. If you are in a non-chaotic regime, then yes you may hear something like the input oscillator.
Ian |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007
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Location: NM USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:39 am Post subject:
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| loss1234 wrote: | | without using an oscilloscope, what are some of the signs to look for that i am entering "chaos" ?? |
Good question .
It may take some experimenting to get the hang of this circuit.
First, the range of the circuit doesn't go very far into the audio. So it's easiest to set it up as a CV generator.
Try this:
(1) Connect a Sin or Tri LFO to the Drive input and turn the Drive control up full.
(2) Set the Rate control up full and the Damp control about half up.
(3) Connect the X output to the FM input of a VCO, with the modulation depth up about half way and the VCO frequency in the audio range.
(4) Connect the VCO out to your mixer.
(4) Slowly tune the LFO frequency from about 100 Hz downward. You should find a couple of regions where the VCO signal is jittery. That's the chaos. Next, repeat the above for various combinations of Drive and Damp settings until you get a feel for where the chaotic regions are.
Ian |
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loss1234
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
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Location: nyc
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:54 am Post subject:
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wow.
i dont have an lfo yet to plug in to try your experiment (next thing i need to build i guess
BUT i have gotten some amazing results hooking up a weird CMOS noise maker into the drive input and then routing one cv out from the EZ to
v/oct of my ssm 2044 filter
cv in of my wilson vco
cv in of my wilson vco
and ssm 2044 out into mixer.
now the output levels from my vco are WAY too loud so they always overload my preamp (still need to make a nice vca to add volume control)
BUT i am getting some amazing results.
some of it sounds like ring mod, some like fm, and some is just weird and other worldly (must be the chaos)
i got some results where feeding a sine into the drive in, i got a series of notes repeating off of my vco...mind you this was with just a constant tone on the vco and the drive in....very freaky!
i cant wait to try this with sub-audio from an lfo.
thanks for this circuit!!
cant wait to build one of the other ones but first i better try to solder this up and get it off the breadboard.
_________________
-------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle |
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frijitz
Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1734
Location: NM USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject:
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| loss1234 wrote: | | ...i dont have an lfo yet to plug in to try your experiment ... cant wait to build one of the other ones but first i better try to solder this up and get it off the breadboard. |
If you reduced R2 to 500k, then you should also reduce R3 and R8 to 2.2k or 2.7k.
You can modify the circuit to work at higher audio frequencies. You could reduce R4 and R9 from 3.3M to1M, and C1 and C2 from 1000pF to 220pF. Then you should be able to drive with a VCO and hear the chaotic output, as long as you keep the VCO frequency fairly low (below 300 Hz or so).
Ian |
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para
Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 276
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | now the output levels from my vco are WAY too loud so they always overload my preamp (still need to make a nice vca to add volume control)
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and for this you can just build a simple passive attenuator or even a passive mixer. you are sending like 10 volts max into ahh, i'm guessing audio preamp or a mixer or your sound card or something? you can destroy stuff this way. just grab a few jacks, pots and some 100k resistors and build a little passive mixer so you can lower the volume to about 1.3 volts which is around line level. dedicating a whole VCA to this would be a waste, there is generally no reason to modulate the final output.
steven |
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chriswilliams
Joined: May 17, 2005
Posts: 17
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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andrewF
Joined: Dec 29, 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject:
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Thanks chriswilliams
strangely that missing image doesn`t appear in my copy of the article either (mine is from Computer Music Journal).
Anyway it is a good read.
Hey - nice n hot in Perth today, hope u got aircon or a pool! |
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