OS Update

Hyde · Joined: Jul 15, 2004 Posts: 118 G2 patch files: 2

not that Clavia or anyone here cares - but i thought i would formally make it known that the G2 expanded Engine is the last piece of hardware i will EVER buy from Clavia. they have 150% lost me as a customer and i will champion an effort to let every musician i know who has or will consider buying something from this company to refrain from doing so. i have been a loyal customer of theirs for almost 8 years. never again. never.

Tim Kleinert · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:31 am Post subject:

Wout Blommers · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:44 am Post subject:

What's a long time? To my two years old son it is two days, to me it is ten years...

Okay, you all bought completely useless synthesizers, because there are some bugs in it. Wasted money, which was better spent on something else, right? So Clavia is thinking about setting one of their programmers to fix those bugs and all... How many working hours? 200? How many G2 are sold at the moment? About 1200? How many will Clavia sell after the update? Probably zero? It is just a little company, so no money generating projects are a very bad thing to do.

On another forum I proposed to talk to Clavia at the Frankfurter Messe. Make them a proposal. Something like 'if half of the costs are paid in advance, someone starts to work on it'. And paid by us, of course Smile

Wout

Tim Kleinert · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:03 am Post subject:

Wout Blommers · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:32 am Post subject:

Tim Kleinert · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:51 am Post subject:

Kassen · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:00 am Post subject:

Kassen · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:32 am Post subject:

Kassen · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:49 am Post subject:

Tim Kleinert · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 5:56 am Post subject:

Personally, I'm not getting worked up too much about Vista. What bugs me (pun intended) far more is that Clavia is not willing to address the existing bugs, and some of them are really bad. It isn't enough that they never published the physical modelling modules, which they officially promised and already publicly demoed in beta(!). No, the delayline readout-pointer bug also actively sabotages rolling your own physical models too! (We'll ignore the 16-bit depth for once.) And the reverb module which produces more hiss than my old cheapo Mackie mixer... unusable osc-sync... I could go on, listing really bad stuff. Not small niggles, but really audibly compromising stuff which renders the G2 useless in a professional studio environment.

Tim Kleinert · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:15 am Post subject:

Static Motion · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:54 am Post subject:

Seem to have started of a very interesting thread...
I think Clavia should listen to it's users, and admit it not a finished product by any means !!!
How can we make them listen and persue them to make it a real finished product ?
As an intel-mac user, i'd really like to see a UB version !!!
No-one in this board has any influence ? As this is an official NM-board ?

Wout Blommers · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:30 am Post subject:

Yes.

See http://www.clavia.se/main.asp?tm=Support

Wout

Kassen · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:41 am Post subject:

dasz · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:23 am Post subject:

Tim Kleinert · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:24 am Post subject:

Good point, Kassen, and so true. I grew up in the classic MIDI-studio days -an Atari running the sequencer, a bunch of synths and modules, a mixing desk and outboard. In that era, bugs were a very rare exception and a grave one too. R&D and marketing was much more expensive, so there was not much room for small (understaffed) companies. The gear from "the big 3" (Yamaha, Roland, Korg) was always bug-free (and still is). Even when AKAI was in an economic slump and it took ages for the S6000 Sampler OS to finalize, it still did finalize in the end, even when the sales had peaked long before. During that time, I worked extensively with the S3200 for almost a decade -bugs: zero. Countless other examples come to mind...

Fozzie · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:00 pm Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject:

This is not an official Clavia support site. This web site is run as a labor of love and for a love of the music. I don't know how much clout I or electro-music.com has with Clavia, but I've written the people I know there a letter asking at least for a clarification of their policy.

Keysandslots · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject:

These sorts of situations are why I like to sit down and play my acoustic piano or Rhodes as often as I can. My Rhodes hasn't had a crash or bug in years, doesn't need much in the way of updating and works great sitting beside a computer with any operating system.

Just my way of saying I'm starting to like low-tech a bit more. Back on topic 'though, I would like to convince Clavia to remember why they developed the G2 and similar architectures in the first place. This is the best of all sorts of worlds. It's fast, updateable, modular, the perfect combination of hardware and software. I still think a development kit and a push to open source would make the most sense at this stage.

Randy

Kassen · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject:

kcinsu · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject:

I've just written a very respectful email urging them to reconsider this conclusion they've reached, regarding updates...

I hope many are doing the same!

Tim Kleinert · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject:

Kassen · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:25 pm Post subject:

I don't see it as unpaid work. Clavia is selling instruments, instruments that come with a manual, software and updates. It would be cheaper without a manual... it would be cheaper without "free updates". As I see it they present the updates as a a part of the deal.

Charging for samples makes sense, but I think charging for modules would be a bad idea. What If I buy different ones then you do? Poof goes the patch compatibility and without user created downloadable patches where would the NM and G2 be for many/most users?

In practice a lot of people do unpaid work for the G2, happily and cheerfully, labelling it "fun time", but they do.

Then again, perhaps "free updates" is still cheaper for them then the amount of testing it would take to get it truly bug-free.

Tim Kleinert · Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject:

Wout Blommers · Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:43 am Post subject:

Tim,

I agree with your post at 12/22 - 9:51 pm

In a way a lot of info is already available on the net, only most synth users are a little bit lazy to read it Shocked

Lets work from the principle: 'Do something for others and the others will do something for you'. (Yes, it's Christmas time Very Happy

)

There has to be a meeting with Clavia, in person or on the Net.
We could suggest to pay in advance to get the things we want after enough users has paid some money, if not, funds will be returned. In a way we hire some Clavia resources.

We could start a the above mentioned PR campaign, which could be coupled to amount of inlay money (who gives more has to pay less...)

Anyway, just some thoughts.

And again, I still think it's over when H. Nordelius or M. Kjellander says it's over!

Wout