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Resonant Lopass Gate PCB's (New Batch 4/29/12)
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ericcoleridge wrote:
TekniK wrote:
Wink


Teknik, this is awesome! Will you be having it made for Front Panel Express by any chance? I'd love to see the file, if so. I would like to do basically the same design-- but I've been using FPD thus far and will probably stick to this format.

If not FPD, how will you fab your design? Thanks for posting!


Hi,I just did send u PM,its illustrator design,am gonna let it silkscreened proffesionally.
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krisp14u



Joined: Nov 11, 2006
Posts: 206
Location: uk

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Boards just showed up in Yorkshire England
Cheers Thomas they look fantastic
I will be building 3 up very soon

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doctorvague



Joined: Mar 14, 2007
Posts: 281
Location: new mexico
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tasmanian Alkaloid wrote:

Has anyone done any experiments with different coloured LED's in hairballs?


I've looked and looked for this and can't find it... there was a guy, I believe Japanese who had done some experiments and wrote up responses for different colored and sizes of LED's etc, but I can't find the site now. Maybe someone else will chime in. If not, you can start a new topic specifically asking about that and someone will probably know. Other than that, simply build the whole thing minus the vactrols, run some wires from the vactrol part of the board to a breadboard and spend some time breadboarding the vactrol part to see what sounds/responds to your liking. You'll have a one-of-a-kind LPG for sure!

----------------------
djthomaswhite wrote:

VTL5C2 - Superfast, could use an enevelope to help with shape

VTL5C3 - Fast, but natural Vactrol decay makes minimum response times long enough for use with trigger or gate alone



Is the VTL5C2 really faster than the VTLC3?? I thought it was slower scratch

The NSL-32 doesn't get mentioned much, but I've used it in these kinds of circuits and find it to be very musical. It's response is relatively fast compared with the VTL series. Also used a combo of one VTL5C3 and one NSL-32 that worked really well. This was in another Buchla filter that called for a VTL5C3/2 (dual vactrol). I recommend trying combinations if you have different ones around.

[Edit] Keep in mind Vactrols are known to vary widely from one to the next even in the same model and batch.

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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Is the VTL5C2 really faster than the VTLC3?? I thought it was slower

according to datasheet, yes; both the turn-on and turn-off time.

i just compiled the tables from the perkins elmer datasheet for the most common vactrols (one-stop one-shop, one might find it helpful):
http://www.modular.fonik.de/forum/PE_Vactrols.pdf

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doctorvague



Joined: Mar 14, 2007
Posts: 281
Location: new mexico
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
Quote:
Is the VTL5C2 really faster than the VTLC3?? I thought it was slower

according to datasheet, yes; both the turn-on and turn-off time.

i just compiled the tables from the perkins elmer datasheet for the most common vactrols (one-stop one-shop, one might find it helpful):
http://www.modular.fonik.de/forum/PE_Vactrols.pdf


Thanks for the helpful sheet!

I'm confused - the sheet says:
VTL5C3 turn on 2.5 ms, turn off 35ms
VTL5C2 turn on 3.5ms, turn off 500ms
am I missing something here??

OTOH the VTL5C4 turn on 6ms, turn off 1.5 sec - that ought to give some ring for sure!

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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

doctorvague wrote:
I'm confused - the sheet says:
VTL5C3 turn on 2.5 ms, turn off 35ms
VTL5C2 turn on 3.5ms, turn off 500ms
am I missing something here??

Laughing
no, i mixed it Embarassed

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matthias
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doctorvague



Joined: Mar 14, 2007
Posts: 281
Location: new mexico
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
doctorvague wrote:
I'm confused - the sheet says:
VTL5C3 turn on 2.5 ms, turn off 35ms
VTL5C2 turn on 3.5ms, turn off 500ms
am I missing something here??

Laughing
no, i mixed it Embarassed


Smile
Well Thomas has it backwards too, then...
Thought I was losing my marbles.

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djthomaswhite



Joined: Nov 22, 2007
Posts: 140
Location: Orange, CA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

whoops Embarassed

All the more reason to try triggers only first! My vtl5c2 is still on my bench waiting for pots to arrive (petty excuse)

BTW - Edited my other post

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Last edited by djthomaswhite on Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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LektroiD



Joined: Aug 23, 2008
Posts: 1019
Location: Scottish Borders
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Still nothing showed up here Sad

If nothing has surfaced by the end of the week, I'll probably sell all the components I pre-bought, to make some of my money back. This will include a pair of VTL5C3 & a pair of VTL5C4 (I was intending to build one with the slower vactrols and one with the faster).

I'll keep you posted
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TheAncientOne



Joined: Dec 26, 2006
Posts: 144
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Boards landed in Lancashire UK today.

They look good.

Thanks again.

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krisp14u



Joined: Nov 11, 2006
Posts: 206
Location: uk

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Brainstormer wrote:
Still nothing showed up here Sad

If nothing has surfaced by the end of the week, I'll probably sell all the components I pre-bought, to make some of my money back. This will include a pair of VTL5C3 & a pair of VTL5C4 (I was intending to build one with the slower vactrols and one with the faster).

I'll keep you posted


Don’t worry Brainstormer I was 2 weeks behind everyone else on the First run of Klee boards

The royal mail is just sometimes very crap give it at least a week or so

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neandrewthal



Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 672
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a rough quad unit panel layout, likely to change in the years before I actually build the damn thing. I tried to be as faithful to the original as possible while incorporating the new features and adapting to a skinnier MOTM panel. The big knobs are the Moog style Cosmo clones and the small ones are the serge style Davies clones.


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BananaPlug



Joined: Jul 04, 2007
Posts: 307
Location: Philly
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

djthomaswhite wrote:
Quote:
Mr. Banana,

You will find that a trigger or pulse only is frequently adequate to use with the LPG. The faster the Vactrol, the more need for an AD/AR/ADSR
--snip--
All this is subjective and IMHO of course. What I find more useful is a gate to trigger converter with a control over the length of the outgoing pulse. Here's why: The pulse length acts as the "sustain" for the Lopass Gate circuit in relation to the decay time of the response. You see, Vactrols have an established opening time and an established decay time. Changing the length and amplitude of the trigger is VERY useful when looking for different responses from the Lopass Gate. That is why I recommend for all builders to have a CV input with an attenuator. Lower amplitude triggers will open the gate/filter less and can be used to dial in a certain response.


Gotcha covered. One thing that appealed to me about pairing up the LPG with Ian Fritz' AD/AR is the one shot that comes with it. It's output pulse can be delayed and you can set the width. So, if you feed it a gate signal you get the adjustable width pulse you wanted plus an optional delay. You could just feed the one shot output to the LPG, or use the other half of Ian's circuit to make the attack and decay rampy. Very Happy
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djthomaswhite



Joined: Nov 22, 2007
Posts: 140
Location: Orange, CA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good points...

So, if you feed it a gate signal you get the adjustable width pulse you wanted plus an optional delay.

I have found the vactrol's combined with the resonance control on my PCB's to cause a bit of a delay. Especially with higher resonance settings. The Vactrol rings later than the pulse of the module creating a "late" response that is dependent on the speed of the vactrol. The 5C3 is really noticable in this area and the 5C4 is not as much due to being "soooo" much slower it is hard to pick out the peak.

It is fun to feed the LPG a square/pulse LFO due to the "bendiness" of the vactrols. Almost rounds the corners a bit

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krisp14u



Joined: Nov 11, 2006
Posts: 206
Location: uk

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Had some fun building and playing with a triple LPG this afternoon/evening
All I can say is what a sweet project to build 10 out of 10 Thomas for the board layout may you do many more
Also big thanks to Don a man who knows how to use a Vactrols

It’s nice to have some new pluck in my synth


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Tasmanian Alkaloid



Joined: Jun 29, 2008
Posts: 116
Location: Isle De Mort

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

doctorvague wrote:
Tasmanian Alkaloid wrote:

Has anyone done any experiments with different coloured LED's in hairballs?


I've looked and looked for this and can't find it... there was a guy, I believe Japanese who had done some experiments and wrote up responses for different colored and sizes of LED's etc, but I can't find the site now. Maybe someone else will chime in. If not, you can start a new topic specifically asking about that and someone will probably know. Other than that, simply build the whole thing minus the vactrols, run some wires from the vactrol part of the board to a breadboard and spend some time breadboarding the vactrol part to see what sounds/responds to your liking. You'll have a one-of-a-kind LPG for sure!


Is this it? I found it by fluke, over at experimentalists anonymous. Looks interesting indeed..

http://www.aleph.co.jp/~takeda/radio/phaser/indexE.html

I don't want to take this too far off-topic, but i'm not sure if colour plays a big role in resistance of LED's. I'll try a few materials between the LED & LDR in the hairball eg. plastics, paper, and see if anything musically useful happens.
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

krisp14u wrote:
Had some fun building and playing with a triple LPG this afternoon/evening

nice how you used the additional power connectors footprint as a power bus Very Happy great work!

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djthomaswhite



Joined: Nov 22, 2007
Posts: 140
Location: Orange, CA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

All secondary PCB's have shipped today via First Class US Mail. There were 10 additional orders that went out. If you PayPalled me, you have boards on the way.

Once I make sure everyone is satisfied and is holding the boards hey paid for I *may* have somewhere around 10-20 extra PCBs. Some have emailed me. I think interest might peak again when builds people have done start to surface in sound and images (maybe). I cannot commit to another run, but I will part with any boards I have I don't plan to use myself.

Attention Folks: I do have 2 populated PCB's I might make available. They are the Rev. 1 boards and have a different wiring set up (no PCB mounted pots for example), but do include the same features of the circuit WITHOUT the seprate mixer circuit added to the final Rev.3 PCBs. If you think you would like to see a picture or make an offer please PM me. The Vactrol used on both is VTL5C3 (most common in use) and the boards are without solder mask or silkscreening, but that doesn't matter since they are populated already. You'd just have to wire 2 pots, 1 switch and be done with it.

Thanks for the bandwidth, Oh... and to Krisp... a beautiful job my friend. Nice triple unit in fine form and fashion. I also like the use of the extra power connector for a power bus. Likely to see more people taking that route I think. Glad to hear the twangs and plucks from over the distant horizon Very Happy

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keithwin



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 83
Location: uk

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:10 am    Post subject: Boards Arrived Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Got my boards on saturday 15th, fantastic stuff and lovely sentiment about LH.

Not building as quick as krisp14U though!
Nice work Paul

Cheers

Keith
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mono-poly



Joined: Jul 07, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Boards arived in the Netherlands!
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keithwin



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 83
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:10 am    Post subject: Boards Arrived Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm in Stockport UK BTW

Also I have a FPD panel for the 292c Accurate Buchla style if anyone is interested

Cheers

Keith
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doctorvague



Joined: Mar 14, 2007
Posts: 281
Location: new mexico
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tasmanian Alkaloid wrote:
doctorvague wrote:
Tasmanian Alkaloid wrote:

Has anyone done any experiments with different coloured LED's in hairballs?


I've looked and looked for this and can't find it... there was a guy, I believe Japanese who had done some experiments and wrote up responses for different colored and sizes of LED's etc, but I can't find the site now. Maybe someone else will chime in. If not, you can start a new topic specifically asking about that and someone will probably know. Other than that, simply build the whole thing minus the vactrols, run some wires from the vactrol part of the board to a breadboard and spend some time breadboarding the vactrol part to see what sounds/responds to your liking. You'll have a one-of-a-kind LPG for sure!


Is this it? I found it by fluke, over at experimentalists anonymous. Looks interesting indeed..

http://www.aleph.co.jp/~takeda/radio/phaser/indexE.html

I don't want to take this too far off-topic, but i'm not sure if colour plays a big role in resistance of LED's. I'll try a few materials between the LED & LDR in the hairball eg. plastics, paper, and see if anything musically useful happens.


That'sthe site. I was on it but just didn't click on the right sub-page.

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wmonk



Joined: Sep 15, 2008
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Location: Enschede, the Netherlands
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Boards arrived in the Netherlands today! WHeeyaa!

Thanks Thomas!
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xpander



Joined: Nov 16, 2008
Posts: 25
Location: san josé, california

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'll take four of the boards if you have a few left.
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ericcoleridge



Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 889
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Boards Arrived Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

keithwin wrote:
I'm in Stockport UK BTW

Also I have a FPD panel for the 292c Accurate Buchla style if anyone is interested


I'd love to see, I PMed you.
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