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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
wish: BBD Delay
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oscilloclast



Joined: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 49
Location: VA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, that is an excellent article.
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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
Posts: 423
Location: PDX
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RE: http://www.aeri.com/counterfeits.html

It's a nefarious plot to bring Synth DIY to a grinding halt! Evil or Very Mad
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok,something positive now Very Happy


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dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 261
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oscilloclast wrote:
So I got 4 dead MN3005 chips from utsource and I started gathering info (pictures and specs) on the chip to see if I could get an idea of what was going on. The spec sheet and all of the pictures I could find of the chip (from the internet and the utsource site) show a circular indentation (dot) on the top of the chip (this is not the orientation notch) but the chips they sent me do not have this dot. This made me think that the chips I got were fakes and I told utsource this. They wrote back and said that their supplier said they did not have the dot because my "date codes" were different. Did anyone receive working MN3005 chips from utsource that do not have the dot on top? The whole thing just sounds kindof fishy. I'm currently in conversation with utsource to get the chips replaced.

Thanks,
David


I think I was the first to recommend UTSource and I apologize for that recommendation if in fact they are sending fake chips. The four I got had the indent David refers to and they worked in my Blacet TimeMachine. I've purchased from them before and have not had trouble. The one time I got a bad chip they were responsive and took care of it.

Sorry guys.

I just (well, really a couple of weeks ago for a different project) bought another one from them, and if it is different, I'll post here first.

Edit: I also am going to try to order some from http://www.aeri.com/index.asp, the people who posted the article on counterfeit chips. As soon as they return my RFQ, I'll buy a couple and post the results.

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Collision Forensics & Enginering, Inc.

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oscilloclast



Joined: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 49
Location: VA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:22 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: MN3005s
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Thanks for the reply David. Thats good to know that your MN3005s had the circular indent and that they worked. I don't believe that utsource deliberately sold me the counterfeits, I think they just were not paying attention. They have offered to refund my money (or send me new chips). And beyond the counterfeit chips (which according to the article can happen to any retailer) they seem like they are easy to deal with. Keep us informed how the other source for the 3005s works out.

Thanks,
David
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I did take time today to test my ic's i got from utsource and smallbear,

i did buy 4 from smallbear and 13 from UTsource and they all work.
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oscilloclast



Joined: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 49
Location: VA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Could you do me a favor and tell me if your MN3005 chips have a circular indent (dot) on the top (not the orientation notch)?

Thanks
David
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oscilloclast wrote:
Could you do me a favor and tell me if your MN3005 chips have a circular indent (dot) on the top (not the orientation notch)?

Thanks
David



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oscilloclast



Joined: Sep 29, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:45 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: MN3005
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Thanks for the pictures! Your pictures and every single picture I can find on the net (of real ICs) and the IC spec sheet clearly show the circular indent. My chips don't have the indent so I'll have to see if utsource can send me some non-counterfeit chips.

Thanks,
David
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jaidee



Joined: Oct 28, 2007
Posts: 43
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:43 am    Post subject: Re: fake MN3005 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Within the last few days I've received a couple of MN3005 chips from utsource.

They do not work - they are either dead/defective or fake (tested in my Blacet Time Delay).

They do not have the circular indent on the top which David has mentioned.

They do have a circular indent on the underside which has a different number stamp for each chip.

I've pointed out the problem to utsource and have had a prompt acknowledgement for them asking for clarification of the problem and the "reason" (I cant't tell them anything more than the chips do not work when because they are either dead or fake).

Hopefully, they'll resolve this satisfactorily. I'll keep you posted.

Best wishes to all for 2010.

James
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Btw,did anyone that already did buy MN3005 from utsource got a mail from them after with the offer to have a quote to buy more MN3005 ?

I strangly got one 4-5 weeks ago in fact
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magman



Joined: Feb 04, 2009
Posts: 361
Location: Liverpool, UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
Btw,did anyone that already did buy MN3005 from utsource got a mail from them after with the offer to have a quote to buy more MN3005 ?

I strangly got one 4-5 weeks ago in fact


I got a general enquiry from them, about 6 weeks after my last enquiry, but it mentioned TDA1022's not MN3005.

I'm sorry to see that there are bad MN3005's being supplied by utsource, as I was one of the people on this forum that suggested that they may be a potential supplier of components. It would be a shame to lose a potential resource for rare chips due to them getting a reputation for this kind of supply.

Here's hoping those who have received bad chips get sorted (please let us know) and soon.

Regards

Magman
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oldschool57



Joined: Nov 15, 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Bellerose, NY

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I should be receiving some MN3005's I ordered from Utsource sometime his week. I will test them, take pics and post the results ASAP. In the mean time; David and James; do you think you could take & post pics of the suspect/not working 3005's? Also, have you folks tried to see if the print on them was removable w/acetone or the mineral spirits/alcohol mix described in the "Detection of Counterfeits" article linked earlier ?
Thanks!
Dave
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oscilloclast



Joined: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 49
Location: VA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: MN3005 IC Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The 4 chips on the left are the "counterfeits" that I received from utsource. The chip on the right is a real MN3005 (from my Doepfer delay). As can be seen in the photo the "counterfeit" chips on the left have very weakly printed text and no circular indentation on the top (which the real chip on the right has). I have not tried to see if solvent will wash away the text because I don't want utsource saying I damaged the chips. The chips also have different length legs (the real chip has longer legs).

David


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oscilloclast



Joined: Sep 29, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The MN3005 on the right (the taller one) is the one that works, the chip on the left is most likely a counterfeit.

David


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strategy



Joined: Jan 03, 2009
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Location: portland, oregon

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Argh, just got my UTsource MN3005's along with a couple other chips. I am going to test them in my Dlx Memory Man tomorrow to see if they work, but they are also non-indented ones so I'm feeling bummed already.

the other issue is that my Dlx Memory Man has weird quirks and is not the best test 'vehicle', but it's all I've got now that takes the chip. If anyone in the Portland, OR area has something that takes MN3005's and doesn't mind me giving these chips a spin that would be appreciated.

what I noticed on UT source is when you select your desired chip they actually give you a range of options for that chip, like maybe they are drawing from multiple suppliers. I think I chose arbitrarily, I can't remember what all the parameters were, but they show you a little table with different lines but all the same part, but with slight differences. this may account for how some chips are coming up bad and others fine, these guys are probably more like a broker/pipeline for a number of different, some good and some bad, parts suppliers.

- Strategy

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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
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Location: Brussels, Belgium

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just received a mail from UTSOURCE stating they got fake MN3005 from their supplier. Maybe a good idea to avoid them for the moment.

I also ordered mine on the 5/12/2009 and still no package has showed up...

Rolling Eyes
Quote:
We are sorry for MN3005.

We always sell this item MN3005, due to before source parts already sold out, so we changed another supplier, but unfortunately they sold us fake parts, after we ship parts to different customers, they all said can not use, so we are afraid we got fake parts from this supplier, we have to apologize for it, due to we don't have machine to test it.

We are honest supplier, we don't want our customer loss any money, we also lost money in this case, due to if parts used, we can not return back to our supplier, we will compensate it by ourselves, pls understand us. You can return back parts to us, after we got return back parts and checked parts are ours, no damage, we can refund money to you, is that ok ?

We are sorry again.

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numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Could be plausible. I've ordered some ICs from them - have used 2 of them and they checked out ok. I'll check out the others soon and post something if I have any issues.
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oldschool57



Joined: Nov 15, 2006
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Location: Bellerose, NY

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for posting those pics. Those IC's don't look anything like the 3005's I have in my BBD stash.
I guess somebody at UT didn't read that article. Rolling Eyes
Or, just didn't care...
Dave
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

strategy wrote:

what I noticed on UT source is when you select your desired chip they actually give you a range of options for that chip, like maybe they are drawing from multiple suppliers. .

- Strategy


Exaclty,when i did asked a quote for certain chips (not only mn3005),i got different listings in my mailbox they gave me (in the confirmation just before they ask me to pay), i then first replied to point out what i exactly want that i asked a quote for (exact part from that particular batch listed on there site),i got immediately a kind reply with the fixed list,and thats what i got when it was delivered.

I don't think they are scammers at all.
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xpmtl



Joined: Aug 10, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now that i'm quite certain i'll get fake ones, is there a way to test the chips before I send them back?

Is there a simple circuit I can build (breadboard) or a way to see if they are working?

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strategy



Joined: Jan 03, 2009
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Location: portland, oregon

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this morning I got this same email.
- Strategy

xpmtl wrote:
I just received a mail from UTSOURCE stating they got fake MN3005 from their supplier. Maybe a good idea to avoid them for the moment.

I also ordered mine on the 5/12/2009 and still no package has showed up...

Rolling Eyes
Quote:
We are sorry for MN3005.

We always sell this item MN3005, due to before source parts already sold out, so we changed another supplier, but unfortunately they sold us fake parts, after we ship parts to different customers, they all said can not use, so we are afraid we got fake parts from this supplier, we have to apologize for it, due to we don't have machine to test it.

We are honest supplier, we don't want our customer loss any money, we also lost money in this case, due to if parts used, we can not return back to our supplier, we will compensate it by ourselves, pls understand us. You can return back parts to us, after we got return back parts and checked parts are ours, no damage, we can refund money to you, is that ok ?

We are sorry again.

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oscilloclast



Joined: Sep 29, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:49 am    Post subject: MN3005 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I got the same Email from utsource and I've asked for a refund. My 2 cents on the whole issue is if you get chips without the circular indent and you can't test them I would assume that they are fakes. If anyone finds another source please say so.

If nothing else this whole issue has given me a really in depth education on the whole fascinating world of counterfeit chips.

David
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dingebre



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

xpmtl wrote:
Now that i'm quite certain i'll get fake ones, is there a way to test the chips before I send them back?

Is there a simple circuit I can build (breadboard) or a way to see if they are working?


Here is the data sheet with a test circuit.

I still haven't heard from http://www.aeri.com/index.asp on my request for a bid. I'll submit another one today.

My "extra" MN3005 arrived from UTSource over the weekend and it, too is a fake. When I emailed UTSource, I got the same email. It's unfortunate they lost their genuine supply.


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http://www.xmission.com/~dingebre/Synthasystem.html
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strategy



Joined: Jan 03, 2009
Posts: 68
Location: portland, oregon

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmm, I'd debated whether or not to request a replacement chip from UTsource, but if their replacement stock is also counterfeit that's too bad. The other chips they sent seem like the real deal, so maybe I'll see if they can offer me a 'store credit' and hope that whatever I order is not subject to the same dodginess.

Lesson learned, go to small bear first, your extra $ pays for the tested guarantee. I usually go to them first for a lot of specialty parts anyways...

- Strategy

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